Blythe Brumleve:
0:05
Grace Sharkey back with us from freight waves the Blythe Milligan. Here we are proudly presented by SPI logistics, and we're going to talk about building roads and ports in South America. So this was such a fun story for me personally, to do a lot of research on. I don't know if you could tell in my voice, and I will say,
Grace Sharkey:
0:25
I annoy you what you're talking about. But I also was like, Oh, this is very interesting. So
Blythe Brumleve:
0:32
I just so, I so I've been endlessly watching YouTube videos for a while and keeping notes on this specific topic, because, I guess, as a backstory, my first trip out of the country was to Peru. Peru is a country that's based in South America. It has one of the world wonders with Machu Picchu. It was a trip that, honestly, just changed my life. I literally think about that country at least five times a week. It's just so I got, you know, proof, no, I don't have the Peru stuff. We got the we got this gentleman right here, I'm blanking on the name, but that got that Peru so great country. Love it. But what I noticed when I was there is the road construction. And the they have such, they have an Andes mountain range that is located there, and also in other countries as well, but the roads are so insane. There's actually, you know, YouTube documentaries that I'll put a link in the show notes that talks about how dangerous these roads are. There's a road in Bolivia, which I'll talk about here in a little bit. It's literally called the road of death, just because they're so dangerous to drive on. But the reason that this story came about is that I I always kind of have, like, my eyes open for anything like Peru related stories. But there is a new South American port in Peru that was just opened, the the shanka Mega port that was just opened. And if you don't know the geography of Peru. It's basically on the west coast of South America, and so for a lot of shipments, especially from China, that is a direct trade route for China. And so that's why they have heavily invested in South American infrastructure. And this is one of the biggest ports in the country that just recently opened up. So I guess, to give a little bit of background of why the shanka Megaport matters is because if you think back to our Arctic shipping episode, we talked about, sort of the new Arctic Silk Road that China and Russia, you know, some other countries are trying to explore to develop that trade lane up into the North. Well, there's also other trade lanes that China is also trying to establish, to really diversify their supply chain routes and their trade routes so they're not going to get stuck on the West Coast port congestion, or the Panama Canal, if it has, you know, similar drought levels of what we've seen. You know, it just happening over the last year. So it's they're part of their Belt and Road Initiative, where the the shanka aligns with China's push for new trade corridors. China is South America's largest trading partner, making up 20 to 34% of trade for individual countries, meaning that something like Chile is like 30% of their trade globally is with China. And so these direct corridors, and setting up those direct corridors are vitally important for China. For who, you know, I know a lot of people don't want to hear it, but they control the overall majority of the world's manufacturing. So if they're shipping goods, then they need to be able to protect these trade routes. And so it's called, essentially, the great Rerouting. And this comes from a gentleman that teaches over at Texas A and M, John Paul Rodriguez, and hopefully I'm pronouncing that name right, but he just came out with this phrase called the Great rerouting, and it's how China is diversifying all of their trade routes. And it's not just from the Arctic per or, I guess, the Arctic perception, but then also from other different areas of how they can avoid the Strait of Malacca, which the Strait of Malacca is in is a little bit south of India. But the Red Sea route, in order to get through to the Red Sea, to get to the Suez Canal, China, has to go through the Strait of Malacca. And that is a very, you know, historically that is very challenging for them, because of all the drama that China has had with Japan, they've had with the Philippines, Vietnam, you know, other countries in that area, India, of course. And so that is a major choke point for them. And so he talks about. About how John Paul Rodriguez, he at the Texas A and M professor, and then he is also, I think he has is, he's the Department of maritime Business Administration. So stop me, if I'm, you know, getting a little too far ahead here. But this particular screen, let's bring up this image, and it shows how China has been rerouting its goods based on everything that's happened over the last handful of years. And so basically, what they're doing is they're rerouting a lot of their shipments to avoid the Red Sea crisis, which is what you see here, the Panama drought, the Suez blockage, that happened back in 2020, famously, but all of these different crises that are happening across the globe and how China is trying to deal with, you know, shipping their goods out, and really the rest of the world is trying to deal with shipping their goods out. And so with this port in Shanghai, it offers faster, cheaper routes for especially for Brazilian goods, because Brazilian goods can reach China now two weeks faster than using the Panama Canal. So there's also some strategic benefits as well for the China Peru sort of team up here that it reduces Peru to China logistics costs by 20% and it's also expected to generate 4.5 billion annually and create 8000 jobs in South America. And that comes from G captain, which, you know, Salma cogliano, number one fan. He has such a great channel. It's called what's going on with shipping. He did a video covering this and cited G captain for a lot of these stats. I'll put a link in the show notes in case you want to watch it, because Sal just gives such a great he's such content goals, in my opinion. He just, he gives so much knowledge and perspective on a lot of these different things. But I'll get into some of the key challenges, but especially when it comes to geography and infrastructure gaps. And I got a lot of B roll that I'm ready to tee up. So anything before I start teeing up this B roll, because I'm that was just sort of setting the stage. And now I'm ready to get into the nitty gritty of
Grace Sharkey:
7:08
it. I love it. Yes, no, let's, I think let's get into the nitty gritty, because it's, this is like the fascinating part too, especially when we get to the train route, to the railway route. I think that's interesting in particular. I'm glad
Blythe Brumleve:
7:25
you brought that up, because that where we're going, that is one of the first things I
Grace Sharkey:
7:29
am the oceanic corridor, is that where we're headed? I didn't know, I didn't
Blythe Brumleve:
7:33
know that part. But, yeah, when we talk about, you know, some of the challenges that are going on in South America, it is mainly tied around infrastructure. The roads are very challenging to be built outside of the great Inca Trail, which I'll get into in just a minute. But there's, there's roads, there's the Amazon River, then there's also the rainy seasons, then there's, there's so many it's a continent. So they have all different kinds of weather that are going on different elevations of weather. So the geography of the Andes Mountains is just insane to because I guess I should back up. It's not just the port that's on the west coast of South America. It's essentially trying to connect Peru to Brazil, because Brazil and China are major trading partners with each other. And so what now, what they have to do is Brazil's on the east coast of South America. And so they have to either go around the southern tip of South America, which is very dangerous waters. You can't necessarily, you know, even take a ship through those waters for, you know, six months out of the year. So it's not reliable. And then when you factor in the Panama Canal and a lot of their drought issues that they've faced, you know, in the last couple years, they are, they have alleviated that, I believe they're putting in, you know, some redundancies in order to help, you know, fix their their water flow issues in that region. But still, that's enough to probably shake, you know, somebody else shake another country to say, like, hey, we need to develop another solution for this. And so the idea is that they're going to have this Megaport on the west coast of South America in Peru, and then they can build some train lines, and then they can also build some roads to go through to connect Peru and Brazil from an infrastructure perspective, but you have a little problem with the Andes Mountains in the way. China apparently has a lot of experience in building these train corridors, especially through mountainous areas. Think they've done it a lot in their own country, and so they're helping Peru, and as part of their Belt and Road Initiative is to help not only, you know, South American countries, but also African countries as well. You know, there's, you know, I could also get into a little bit of, like, there's a little, I don't want to say, shadiness going on, but essentially, what China does is they offer the money to start these projects, and if the country can't pay those bills back. Then China is able to seize those infrastructure assets. And so that's, yeah, it's a win win for them. They can get additional trade routes, or they can just take your take your stuff.
Grace Sharkey:
10:13
Um, very capitalistic of that.
Blythe Brumleve:
10:17
So this is a photo of the rail lines in Argentina. So this is just a very small sample size. And so in 1990 you can see all of these rail lines that existed in the country. And then you fast forward to 2014 which is obviously 10 years ago, but it's drastically decreased. What would you say? Maybe 10% of the existing rail lines that were around in 1990 existed in 2014 the reason, and from, you know, kind of reading and trying to understand what's going on with, you know, why would these rail lines decrease so much in such a short amount of time? And the reason for that, as for you know, Argentina, just itself as a country, has had a lot of issues, changing of governments, changing. Anytime you have a change of government, you have change of priorities. So these industries, especially for transportation, have gone through several phases of being regulated versus being unregulated or deregulated. And so when you have that situation take place, then something that's like the rail lines, which were government controlled. So they regulate them, and then they unregulate them, well, they fall into ruin, and the the maintenance of them, you can't keep up with them, and that there's no money to keep up with them. Yeah, there's also an issue of new construction costs. Mother Nature is a big barrier. So that in Bolivia, which is the country to the east of Peru, has a lot of very similar geographic concerns. And so are you in freight sales with a book of business looking for a new home, or perhaps you're a freight agent in need of a better partnership. These are the kinds of conversations we're exploring in our podcast interview series called The freight agent trenches, sponsored by SPI logistics. Now I can tell you all day that SPI is one of the most successful logistics firms in North America who helps their agents with back office operations such as admin, finance, it in sales, but I would much rather you hear it directly from SPI freight agents themselves. And what better way to do that than by listening to the experienced freight agents tell their stories behind the how and the why they joined SPI. Hit the freight agent link in our show notes to listen to these conversations, or if you're ready to make the jump, visit SPI three, pl.com, let's see the road of death. I'm going to bring up the road. It's road of death time. What like a great also road of death time phrase, Oh,
Grace Sharkey:
12:55
Happy Thanksgiving. It's the road of death. Oh, or shook about
Blythe Brumleve:
13:01
I just hold on. Oh, the video is not available anymore. No, no, no sugar. You talk. I'm gonna find it, because this is not gonna get around me. So, so what are the
Grace Sharkey:
13:14
you're not getting through in this one China, we're finding the video. Yeah,
Blythe Brumleve:
13:17
we're gonna find the road of death, free documentary. Road of death, and I'm sure it was here. We have found it.
Grace Sharkey:
13:27
Nice try, nice try, nice try. You try it again. You try it again. But we're going to figure it out.
Blythe Brumleve:
13:35
Alright, let's they thought they could hold us down. Yeah,
Grace Sharkey:
13:40
no, this is a land of the free content over here China.
Blythe Brumleve:
13:46
It's kind of ironic talking about YouTube, and I think they just took down a bunch of other posts recently, but that's it. That's a story for another time. Um, alright, let me bring up this video. And this comes from free documentary. And they basically, they, they have a bunch of people that they're following in Bolivia. One of them is a truck driver, and so to sort of set the scene, like truck driving, obviously, is a very dangerous job here in the United States, significantly more dangerous in South America because of all the issues that they're dealing with. So all that to say I've talked enough about this. I'm going to hit play on this video, and it's going to play for a couple minutes because it's really interesting stuff. There's
Unknown:
14:30
no there is hardly a single road in Bolivia that he hasn't traveled. Oh, yikes. The road to La Paz is his home route. He transports timber from the jungle. His load weighs 25 tons, without any incidents, the journey takes him three days. It's still his dry season at the end of October, so the road is quite dusty. You. In a few weeks, it'll start raining. The road will be drowned in mud and morass, and there is hardly any kind of movement possible. But for now, the drivers are fighting the stifling heat and the dusty air. Omad, Omar is driving quite fast. He's using the opportunity to make kilometers. His co driver hardly knows the road. He wants to learn about its pitfalls from Umar. It's
Grace Sharkey:
15:33
like death gripping the side.
Unknown:
15:38
There are dangers everywhere. You must not make mistakes. The truck could break down. There's a lot to be sorry about when you're on the road, anything can happen. The truck is stuck, the wheels are spinning. It's deep, really deep. Put it in there, in there. So
Blythe Brumleve:
16:13
I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause the video just for a second here, because these are the kind of things that they have to deal with on a regular basis. They can only do these routes so spoiled
Grace Sharkey:
16:25
American drivers, I never
Blythe Brumleve:
16:28
let me tell you. In another video I was watching this morning about Peru's dangerous roads, there's literally an impasse of, you know, when you're going, when you're going around a mountain, especially a curb, you can't see what's coming. You know, around the corner. And so for a lot of the trucks when they're ascending up the mountain, they don't stop. The people that are coming down the mountain are supposed to be the ones that are stopping. And so this one truck that was trying to get around one of these circles, it's not it's not wide enough for the truck to get across. And so with the it's almost like a U shape. They literally took logs and they they cornered the the circle to kind of like add a another, like, part of the road that was just connected so the truck could just get around it. And they said, Oh, this happens all the time. In the video that we're watching right now, they're going through a giant mud pit. Yeah, and they have to put rocks underneath the wheels and then shove a bunch of debris in order to get just around this one piece. There's other drivers too, that when they're driving on these mountains, they're not these mountain roads are not paved, and so that, because they're not paved, the kick the tires kick up a lot of dust, and so then they can't see the damn road. And so it's just all these different things that they're that they're being faced with. And it's just, and we're just talking about the regular roads and the mountains, for God's sake, let alone,
Grace Sharkey:
17:54
like, bringing the the tools to build onto them, right? Like,
Blythe Brumleve:
18:00
and then there's this, this other really fun part where I think, Oh, guess what is. And there's another fun part, because the Amazon River obviously has all these different, you know, sort of this, the main river, and then they have all these sort of offshoots, the inland waterways, which I'll get into in just a second, for South America, is incredible. And, you know, we all know, I think about North American waterways, but with the Amazon in particular, these trucks also, obviously, there's very few bridges in the country, because if they don't necessarily have a lot of roads that are under construction or have been constructed, then they don't necessarily have a lot of the bridge infrastructure either. And so for a lot of these drivers here, I will bring up
Grace Sharkey:
18:43
stop that bridge this
Blythe Brumleve:
18:46
point where they have to get on pontoon boats in order to take their truck from one side of the Amazon river to the other pontoon boats. And a lot of these pontoon boats can fit a max of two trucks at a time. So let me play it from here,
Unknown:
19:09
we're na buki lies on the banks of the Rio, baby on the inflows of the Amazon River. Trucks are waiting to cross the river here. I The ferry consists of a simple wooden pontoon. The Ponte narrow instructs the truck drivers. The Crossing takes half an hour and only two trucks can go on at a time. Oh,
Grace Sharkey:
19:41
that one's barely on there too.
Blythe Brumleve:
19:44
Can we just stop and appreciate and then half of this truck, half of Omar's truck, is hanging off of the back of this pontoon,
Grace Sharkey:
19:52
talking about insurance on loans. Oh, the guy's insured. Yay. You.
Unknown:
20:00
Cool ferryman guanyras is responsible for bringing trucks and people to the other side safely. He's been shipping the Rio beanie for many years now. He also knows when operations should come to a halt. This river needs a certain level you can't always cross. Okay. At high tide, the current will carry floods, wood and junk and everything that destroys the engines of the boats. As soon as the ferry lands on the bank, Juan era RIAs must anchor it tightly. Iron chains will make sure the pontoon doesn't break loose when the trucks Embark. The ramp consists of only two logs. They have to carry the weight of many tons. It takes expertise and good judgment to position them properly. I'm
Blythe Brumleve:
20:57
going to stop the clip right here, because I love this guy, because he goes on it to further explain, in the video of anytime something goes wrong, he blames the driver, which I think is like universal across all countries. He's like drivers that, you know, that they let the wheels spin, or they, you know, they don't, you know, get onto the the boards properly. And if you're just listening, basically, what we're seeing is a giant pontoon boat that has a bunch of, like, two by is two by fours or two by eight, even
Grace Sharkey:
21:29
though term pontoon is like stretching it, or we're talking about a slab on, like, floating devices,
Blythe Brumleve:
21:36
yes, yes. And so then they arrive, up to, they cross the river, they get onto like there's no this is this area is not paved. And then there's two giant pieces of wood that the truck driver is then supposed to drive off of the pontoon boat onto these two giant pieces of wood in order to continue their route. And that's just part of the route. And so, you know, going back a little bit to with Omar, the truck driver that we just saw, I said, not only in this video, do they show all of the different types of geography that that he's having to deal with, but they show along the route he stops over to have a break to eat some lunch, there's somebody In the in the the restaurant that says, Oh, I have to get this monkey up to this town. Can you take it with you? So he literally has a monkey to bring it off and drop it off while he's on the lunch break. That's just one, um, he also does preventative maintenance. Picked up
Grace Sharkey:
22:36
an LTL on the way. And
Blythe Brumleve:
22:39
it's like, I hope this is because it was a cute monkey, and I was like, I'm not going to ask about,
Grace Sharkey:
22:44
you know, how I feel about monkeys and humans,
Blythe Brumleve:
22:46
illegal trade, you know, wildlife trade, no, no shade to Omar. But maybe, maybe be a little curious about where these monkeys are going to before you agree. Yeah, the next one is, he does preventative maintenance on a tire that takes about 30 minutes, but it ends up saving him hours in the future, in case a tire mishap happens when he's like, hundreds of miles away from a town that can actually help him. So he does preventative maintenance while on the route. He also choose coca leaves to de stress and to stay awake. I don't know if you've ever heard of coca leaves. Yep, yeah. So I, I'm a huge coffee drinker. Yes, when I went to Peru, I didn't drink any coffee coca leaves all day, every day. Yeah, it was they served them in which, for folks who don't know, coca leaves are a derivative, or are one of the base ingredients of cocaine? Yeah, obviously there's a bunch of other shit, including, like gasoline and stuff that's also added to the production process, but the coca leaf in general is very medicinal, like, it's everywhere in the country. I really wanted to bring some back. I couldn't. Obviously, it's illegal. There's only actually one company in the world that can export coca leaves from Peru, and that's Coca Cola. Fun fact, there's still a derivative of a cocaine in Coca Cola.
Grace Sharkey:
24:18
Love that. I love it so much. But
Blythe Brumleve:
24:21
coca leaves, like, when you walk into hotels, the dried coca leaves are literally sitting in a bowl next to hot water and lemon and you just and very similar to, like, making a glass of water making a cup of coffee in a hotel lobby, they have coca leaves right there next to it. Um, they also help with, like, elevation sickness. They help to keep you awake. Omar talks about how he uses it to de stress so very I love that the coca lease like, why can't we export these to other countries? I would be a number one buyer of it because it
Grace Sharkey:
24:55
was I know a lot of guys who would you know i. Uh, brokers all over the country. Just like booking the most you're
Blythe Brumleve:
25:06
trying to get more revenue, to get more loads, open up an offshoring office in Peru and allow them to forget Columbia, just go straight to Peru.
Unknown:
25:16
Oh, my God, I love it. Uh,
Blythe Brumleve:
25:18
next one that Omar does is he even he passes a wreck that happened on the side of the mountain, and the driver survived, but the truck falls down because he's literally, he's driving on the road of death, and he comes across like a bunch of belongings that are on the side of the road. So he knows something has happened, and because safety is obviously hugely important, and you can all you can't drive very fast with a lot of the stuff that you're transporting because of all of the geographical situations that you're dealing with. And so they come up on the sky that his truck has just fallen off of the road. He survived, thankfully, got all of the stuff out of the road. And it's just a bunch of drivers, just like looking around and trying to gage, like, what happened and how they can prevent it in the future. Because even though these roads exist, there's still a lot of, like, literally crumbling of the side of the road where it's not all the way solidified, and as far as, like, the, I guess, the construction of the road itself. So there's pieces of the road that are falling down like a landslide because of it. Then another, you know, I guess really cool thing that happened after he discovered that wreckage, which, as a driver, like when you come up on something like that, I imagine it has to be insanely stressful, a very strong reminder of, you know, keep being safe, of while you're on the road. But then another part that really stood out to me is right after this in the documentary, they stopped over at like, this gorgeous waterfall on the side of the road, and they're like, oh, great, it's time to take shower. And so they literally, like, stop over and hang out in this waterfall and de stress, and the Omar talks about how this is the first shower that they've kind of had in like a day and a half. And it's also a great reminder to him that after they just saw this wreckage of a truck driver who thank God he survived, yeah, but it could have been very, very different story. So that kind of scares him as that part of the job. But then, on the flip side, being able to stop off at this gorgeous waterfall and be able to take a shower in a gorgeous waterfall is another like, you know, just a reminder of why he loves his job so much. There was also, you know, really, I guess an interesting parallel for truck drivers in these, you know, Bolivia Peru, Brazil, is that they're seen as celebrities. And Omar in particular, has two wives. And so he, when he travels to other cities, he goes and visits his wife. And, you know, children with this with this one has his other, you know, wife and children with this one, and the woman who kind of knows that the second wife kind of knows about her situation, but she says whenever Omar comes to visit her, that all of the women come up and talk to him, and that he's like a mini celebrity because he's a truck driver and he makes good money relative to, you know, the areas that they're living in. So these other women are all trying to, like, vie to be that next wife. And the woman was like, I see it all the time, and it makes me very jealous. It makes me very angry. And she knows she's the second one. So Omar is over here, just living life. And so really, really interesting documentary. It's the the channel is called free documentary, and so if you just look it up on YouTube, you can find it very easily. I'll also link to it in the show notes. Brokering success demands a battle ready strategy. Thai TMS equips freight brokers with the ultimate battle station for conquering a tough market. With Thai brokers gain access to a comprehensive platform where raid intelligence and quote history converge on a single screen. It's not just a page, it's a strategic command center designed to help brokers win. Thai equips your team with all of the data they need to negotiate with confidence and allows them to communicate directly with carriers and customers from a simple control base, revolutionize the way your brokers perform by giving them a competitive advantage with Thai TMS. For more info, go to Tai software.com, backslash battle stations. And we also have a link for you in the show notes to sign up for a demo. But any I feel like I've been talking for a while and I can continue talking. But any thoughts so far.
Grace Sharkey:
29:41
I mean, it's, I think this is actually, like, my favorite part of logistics topics. It's like, you know, I think we're so, I don't want to say sheltered here in the United States, but like our issues with infrastructure here. Are nothing compared to something like this. And I even think about like, often, just areas, whether it's South America or even Africa, right, that are developing like, truly developing like, from the Amazon to like, having a cement road there, right? Like, not only the it's like, it's, it almost feels like, what came first, chicken or the egg, like, in order to even build the infrastructure out there, you have to be able to drive out there and, and how do you drive somewhere that has, like, no past, like GPS, Google Maps, like car that's, like, driven around and figured out that location. So it's like, I just, I do find it fascinating these areas where, when we talk about, like, visibility products, like, imagine visibility into, like, where that truck is, or where the other trucks are, and being able to actually know that there is a truck on the other side of that, that curve, you know, like, that's where those tools can really make, like, a worldwide difference. When I talk to a lot of, maybe the founders of those companies, you know, sometimes that's like, where their brain goes, big picture wise, where, like, we're sitting here in the United States, like, I don't care, like, where, where's the palette, you know. But like, just the fact that that tech could just, like, save, quite literally save drivers lives right on, like, those mountains. I think is really cool. So I think sometimes when we maybe have these, like, big picture ideas for technology United States, and we can't figure out a way to, like, apply it, I think it's fascinating to kind of, like, put your mindset in a different country where it's like, oh, this could be really advantageous for them. And that's why, I think sometimes we see founding groups come out of these countries, right? I think of like people like the founders behind load smart, right? They're from, I believe Latin America, salveto and their founders, right? I come from
Blythe Brumleve:
32:01
rapido too? Rapido solutions? Yeah,
Grace Sharkey:
32:05
well, I will say Roberto has been the United States for some time, and so if you went to Michigan down the road, but, yes, but still, like, it's, it's, I think it's maybe these problems that we have across the globe, right? How do those influence the technology that also, like, comes out here in the United States, and I think, like, I again, like, a United States driver couldn't even, like, we're over here discussing whether or not parking should have a price on it, where, like, these guys are like, Oh, you want showers. Like, here's a here's a fucking shower, you know, like,
Blythe Brumleve:
32:41
I would much rather take a waterfall today here,
Grace Sharkey:
32:45
right? But I just like, it's fascinating to me that, like, those two cultures, like, exist at the same time, and I need drivers to say, I'm not saying that your problems aren't valid. Yes please. So like, Calm the fuck down. But like, it's, it is just interesting to me to be like, you know, there's always someone worse off, right?
Blythe Brumleve:
33:07
Well, watch. So I missed the intro of this video, and I want to play it now because it shows the actual like, road of death, so you can kind of see what these drivers are dealing with. So let me play the intro for this same video. I
Unknown:
33:34
it's regarded as one of the most dangerous roads of the world, la carretera de la muerte, the road of death. Year after year, many people die here. Some go looking for adventure. Others depend on this road. For all of them, it's a risky ride.
Blythe Brumleve:
34:21
The road. The video is called Hot roads, the road to death in the Andes, which is, it is so I guess, to your point, US drivers have to deal with their own set of problems. These are completely different set of problems with these roads. And if you notice, and if you are watching the video version of this, what I think is is so interesting is that a lot of these roads that exist in South America were created by the Incas, which the Incas are ancient human civilization comparable to, like the Mayans or the Egyptians. And they developed the the Incas developed a road system 24,000 miles long, all within South America. So for a lot of these roads, not necessarily the the road that we just saw in that video, but for a lot of the roads in South America, especially on the west, west coast side of the the continent. They were all created 1000s of years in the 15th century. So I have this little, like short video that I wanted to play, because I just think it's so it really is like just speaks to exactly what they're trying to deal with. Infrastructure wise. How do you even widen roads that were made in the 15th century? They were made for people walking, not for trucks. And so I think that's also something that we got to keep in mind as well. So let me play this really quick, I guess a historical perspective on what these roads in South America are. I guess what the baseline level is, in order to enhance what is going on from a construction infrastructure investment today?
Unknown:
36:08
Inca road system, stretching over 24,000 miles connected the vast Inca Empire, which spanned present day Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia and Chile, built without the wheel or horses. It allowed for efficient movement of armies, goods and messages across mountainous terrain. Bridges and staircases were constructed using advanced engineering techniques. The road network was crucial for the Empire's cohesion and trade. Parts of it are still used today, a testament to the Incas remarkable engineering skills.
Blythe Brumleve:
36:47
The Did you know that most of the Canada No, I'm not gonna play that video. I was gonna play that next video because they were really good at suggesting, like all the Inka road shorts yesterday, when I was finding out exactly what video to use. But I thought that that was just such a good I guess giving a background of because I think sometimes, especially as Americans, we can see the current infrastructure that exists in another country and think that they are, you know, third world, or like, you know, the proper phrase to call them now is the, you know, emerging countries instead of, you know, third world countries. And so we, we kind of, I think, try to compare our country to theirs, and just see it as like a lesser but the Incas were one of the most fascinating civilizations that have ever graced this planet, and their innovations and their construction techniques, and even like their stonework is some of the best we have ever seen in the history of human civilization. A lot of their construction methods we can't replicate to this day, very similar to, like the the Roman cement that we can't replicate to this day. And so when you have infrastructure that has stood the test of time for a lot of like Roman roads versus Inca roads. I think the Inca road should be right up there with it, because it with these road systems. They used it as seen Lord of the Rings. You know the the beacons of of Minas Tirith. You know that messaging system of you know, you light one beacon and the next Gondor calls for aid, you know, all of those things. What
Grace Sharkey:
38:25
a job? How do I sign up for that? Yes,
Blythe Brumleve:
38:27
exactly. You just, you know, you gotta play a hobbit. And then you have to, you know, go against the rules, and then light the beacon on fire. And then, you know, eternity. Yeah, that if I could light a beacon to summon Aragorn, I Well, I can't say that now. I'm a married woman, but I would have done it in the past, which I think any woman now is like growing up, is realizing that Aragorn was the hot one, not Legolas.
Grace Sharkey:
38:56
Yeah, I don't want to admit that I was a big Orlean of women, fandu. I go back to my, like, childhood home and my whole closet, I has, like, just photos of him, like, lying. Oh, my God. What were inseparable in my mind. Well,
Blythe Brumleve:
39:21
yeah, that now we have to admit it, you're right. You're right. As adults, you know you're right.
Grace Sharkey:
39:26
Sam wise was the real hero. Oh,
Blythe Brumleve:
39:30
should bring up the photo. I just met him recently. I
Unknown:
39:32
know, I know that's how I knew it would touch you. I'm not gonna, don't make me cry. I'm
Blythe Brumleve:
39:35
not gonna cry back to South America. Okay, so I hinted earlier about the, you know, the the rail line ecosystem. Then we've also talked about, you know, some of the pontoon boats and for a lot of the geographical challenges we just saw with the road of death, there is another way that we could be, or that South Americans can, you know, I guess, enhance. Logistics profile in order to help the flow of goods, not just between Peru and Brazil, but throughout the entire country. Yeah, most of us have seen that US inland waterways map, but have you ever seen a South American inland waterways map? And so right now on the screen, we're showing the vast network of navigable rivers and also rail lines that exist within the country right now. And so this actually comes from Science Direct. And so this image on the screen is showcasing, showcasing, which is side note or sidebar. I can't believe that, like this level of research actually exists, and I'm thankful for it, because you just, you're looking at this graphic. They're talking about all of the different commodities that are being moved throughout the country. You know, iron ore, which South America is rich in, just natural resources, even like magnesium, petroleum, obviously petroleum, especially for Venezuela and Guyana, cement, wheat, sugar. There's all of these different commodities that are just flooded into the country. Problem is that they can't transport the damn goods. And so this research, you know, went through a lot of the planning of what take, or what it would take in order to develop these different infrastructure projects all across the continent. And if you're, if you're just, I guess listening, I'm sorry, but there's really no way to kind of explain this. Go to the YouTube version of the show and be sure to to watch that version, because a lot of these images are just really incredible. And so just, you know, to talk about how, I guess, you plan a waterway system, distribution within another continent is so like sort of step one is the waterway path proposal. Then they try to find all of the basins, then they identify the major cities and choke points. Then they talk about the technical challenges. Then they talk about land cover, road versus waterway management, the road versus waterway impact. You know, all of these different variables. I'm not going to go through all of them, because that would be super boring, but topographical data. So it's all of these different things. There are people in this world who are trying to plan just these massive infrastructure projects. And I think that that is another really interesting point about just South American logistics, is that there are people actively trying to plan these things out. And so in the next image, they also talk about some of the other rivers, not just the Amazon River, but other rivers that could be navigable as well, where they're planning and proposing to put different stop points. There was one gentleman in that video that was talking about how his family grew coca leaves, they grew pineapples and also Yuccas, or yucca plants, and they would use a mule to take the mule into town in order to sell the yucca. But Yucca cost, like 50 cents per product, but it was costing them 50 cents just to take the damn things there, and so they just stopped taking them there. But then there was a transportation road that was put in place between that town and their town, and so you see all these little dots on the map. And so once his dot got connected to another.it reduced the transportation costs significantly for them, and so this family is now able to sell the goods that they have on their own property and be able to go into town, and it's worth it for them, and they get a little bit of extra money in order to do that, and we're talking like, you know, an extra couple 100 bucks a month, But that couple 100 bucks relative to where they're living, goes so much further than say it would, you know, in in the US, and so there was a lot of just this really cool research that's being done. You know, I'm just kind of scrolling through all the slides here, and I'll link it in the show notes, in case you want to check it out more. But there's just so much stuff that goes into, you know, not just recognizing, hey, we have a road of death. How can we make it less death and more life and more, you know, supplying those, I guess, roads of, like life savers, not theoretically, but, you know, for for a lot of these, like farmers, who, you know, have now a pathway to make money, and it's just, it's part of a, probably a, you know, a projects, or projects that are going to take dozens, maybe hundreds of years to fully flesh out all of these infrastructure issues. But there is, there's a lot of stuff going on in South America it, but a lot of it is starting at very much the ground level and connecting these small towns that you know are small villages that you know you don't even have an address. And I remember asking, you know, one of the people that we were on a tour with, because we were driving through these towns, and I'm like, you know, is delivery even possible out here? Like, do. You have addresses like, you know, just simple things like that that we take for granted. And he said, No, we don't have addresses, but we do have GPS locations, and so they just enter in the GPS coordinates of where they want the packages to be delivered. And it's just such a a different perspective. And I think a lot of things we take for granted, but then also a lot of things. It's like, dang, I kind of wish it was. Kind of wish I could stop off on the side of the road and have a waterfall shower and, yeah, be able to to get away from civilization that you need GPS coordinates to find me
Grace Sharkey:
45:34
100% and it's like, I can't even imagine, like, memorizing my GPS coordinates, you know, like, but it is, I think what's interesting about it is, I don't know if you're going to get into it at all, but did you? Did you read anything about the the central by oceanic railway that they're building at all? No, tell us about it. So let me see if I can find a picture I can send to you. So I will say this has been in talk since about 2013 so there's kind of like this back and forth. If this would like ever happen, I'll, I'll throw it in the chat for you,
Blythe Brumleve:
46:14
because that's, I think while, while you're bringing that up there, we kind of hinted at it earlier, talking about the Argentina railways that have been essentially just left, yeah. And so that exists, not just in Argentina but for a lot of countries throughout the continent, is that they've had these rail lines. They had massive investments, you know, and they were really when rail was at its peak, especially in the United States. That you know this, these problems have been recognized for a while, but for a lot of these rail lines, they've just fallen into disarray because no one has maintained them, and because no one has maintained them or not, no one, but very few of them have been maintained and so it makes projects, I'm assuming, about what you're about to talk about, You know, challenging to take on, unless you just, unless you're just not worried about revamping the current infrastructure and just you want to start new,
Grace Sharkey:
47:08
yeah. And as as you'll see here, this so this is something, if I remember correctly, I'm trying to see if I still have it up. This is something that has been just on and off talks for a while now, but I think, again, it's one of those things where, if they could make a reality, China could have a whole different kind of play here on this side of the world in particular. But basically, they've been talking for years of about doing and China would essentially pay for it, going back to kind of the statement you would say of building this railroad across so that when they come in through that port, they can easily transport it across. Again, this is, like all part of a plan to avoid the Panama Canal in particular. And I think it's interesting again, it's like it sounds like, really what the issue is is who's paying for it, who owns it, and they've recently just started doing, like, the environmental studies on it too. Because, I mean, you're talking about earlier, big part of this is probably throwing some pretty big dynamite into some pretty big mountains. I mean, look at just how small the Panama Canal is, and the work that went into that, honestly, the lives that went into that as well, and now things have updated. So I don't think we're talking about human lives like we're talking that big of an issue. But again, it is a Chinese project, so who knows. But you know, it's it is interesting to just like, see how something like this, right? And again, like, everything is logistics, I like to point back to your brand. Like, like, the talks that we're having terrifies right now. Like, how things would change if there was a different way for China to reroute itself and to avoid some of the areas that the United States has a huge grasp on, right and to be able to ship around, not to have to use the Panama Canal, and to be able to, not only, what would be interesting about this too, is, like you were talking about earlier, is China would own this, so if we wanted to use it as well, or certain countries, right, like, what? How? How does that reflect onto China's overall power and strength when it comes to global trade. And I think, again, like, if this will be built, is, is still up in question, up until today. I think clearly, my thing is, is, I think it would do wonders, probably, for the economies along the line, right? Like, depending on how much China fucks them right? I guess on the deal, that's a big part of this. But I it goes back to, like, the Arctic discussion, where, you know, today we can discuss Chinese politics and just global trade in one nature, but something like this being built or, you know. All the Arctic being used at the the to to the extent that people have discussed it, like, how does that change politics globally? How does that change what the United States is producing? How does that change what we even can get our hands on as consumers? And I just find it fascinating. Like, I was diving into this project for a while too, and like, what's the biggest thing it sounds like, of course, is just, right now, it sounds like they're doing a lot of environmental studies still on it, trying to make sure that's fine, because there is, I mean, they would do some damage with how big this thing is. But again, it kind of just, I think United States in these discussions, lives in a world of like this stuff not ever happening, and what happens in a world where this stuff does start to really grow and actually come to fruition? So, yeah, I, like you said when you discussed or you put in an email for something to talk about today. So I was like, diving into just this aspect alone, and it's, I mean, it's, it's fascinating to think, just like, how this I mean, we're not done evolving in terms of, like, global trade, and I think people are going to find different ways around it. I mean, another big thing too. It's like, you know, sustainability initiatives, like, how, how do we view those in regards to things like this, right? And if we do start to throw aside sustainability issues, or, like, our just the ethics behind it, right? And like, what does that leave open to in other countries? Like, if we're not going to, if we're not going to hold ourselves to a certain standard sustainability wise, like, why even does do these countries have to do environmental studies, right? Like, and so it's and if they don't have to, I can guarantee this thing will be built much faster than it is being looked at now. And so, yeah, I will say
Blythe Brumleve:
51:58
when we were because we did so much driving around in Peru. And so when you're what's what, I guess, spawned the the question of like, well, how do these people even get like stuff delivered? Is that even possible? Is that something that they even want? And so these towns are so small, these indigenous communities, and a lot of them are not being consulted when these big projects are, you know, taking place, or they're being bribed with a bunch of money in order to give up their land, not realizing they're giving it up for pennies on the dollar, when they could be earning significantly more, and they're just being short changed and being sort of like robbed of their natural resources. And so there was another on that same road trip, because I will say that we drove by another town, and I'm so mad at myself to this day that I did not get a photo of it, because it was the cutest thing I've ever seen. But it was a class of kids, and it was a very small town. I'm talking like 10 buildings in this small town. And it could be homes, it could be schools, but it was very clearly like these school children were on the side of the road holding up posters that were talking about like, save the planet and Save Our Towns and things like, so it's they care. And it was really inspiring to see that on on the drive, because for a country like this, tourism is especially for Peru, as is becoming a very serious industry for them, a very good money maker. Think they were also just voted like the top culinary spot in the entire world. Like some of the food that they grow is because they have such high elevations that it's such a unique growing climate like it the best fruit, the best juice I've ever had in my life, the best ceviche I've ever had in my life. A lot of the best meals I've ever had in my life came from this country. And so as you as like these big, mega projects are being considered, yes, it's definitely good from a trade relationship, you know, geopolitical standpoint, typically, when you have trade with a country, you don't go to war with them. And so that is all good and well, but I hope that these indigenous communities are and they probably aren't, but I would hope that there's somebody fighting for them to have a voice and a say in all of this, and so that they, you know, if they are interested in making a little bit of extra money, that they're not short changed, or that their land isn't seized, and you know, they have an opportunity to to cash in on this, as I'm sure that the Chinese are going to be able to cash in on this, and they don't even live in the damn country. And so, you know, it's very interesting to see a map like this of a giant rail line, and then see an image like this of where all of the other existing rail lines and waterways that have really revolutionized trade throughout this entire country, but yet they are still dealing. Right with roads like this? Yeah, exactly. So it's just, it's an incredible set of circumstances that I think is unique to the country of what they're what they're dealing with. You mentioned earlier about how you know what the US is doing, and I had asked, you know, I was doing a lot of research. I took all my notes and I loaded it into chat GPT, and I said, What am I missing from this? Is there any gaps of of my notes that you think would would be interesting to add? And one of the things that chat G, P, T, recommended to add was what the US, how the US is reacting and so a couple different points is that they're reacting to this. Because I kind of feel like asleep at the wheel, almost like I don't, but outside of Guyana, who just had a major oil discovery, who's neighbors to Venezuela, which is obviously an enemy of the US, our current enemy, and it feels like it changes every 10 years, but that is a country that they are helping to invest in. But outside of that, I don't know of anything else that's going on. But chatgpt said that number one trade policies, that's how they're reacting to a lot of this investment that China has made with their Belt and Road Initiative, where they're putting tariffs on Chinese goods. I think they mentioned Peru specifically when it comes to those shipments, because the way that Sal explained it in his you know, what's going on with shipping channel is that China can take these massive boats that can't fit through the Panama Canal, they take these massive ships, send it over to the Megaport in Peru, and then transload it to everywhere else throughout the country, and then also transload those shipments directly into Central America, and then that's obviously a pathway right into the United States. So I believe that they have been threatened with tariffs as well. And then there's also competing investments. So there's the program like the Americas partnership for economic prosperity, and that aims to counter China, but it's lacking in comparable funding. So China's throwing a bunch of money at this us is trying to, you know, form more trade deals, trade policies through those deals or through tariffs one way. They're one way or another. They're, you know, they're, they're going to try to address this. But I feel like they're kind of addressing this way too late, and it creates a set of challenging problems that these countries know that they're dealing with, but now, who do they trust to help them through it? It's not the US. They're just in China. And so I think it's just a very, very fascinating of how all of this is taking shape and how it's all unfolding. And I from the very tops of, like, the geopolitical strategy of developing new trade lanes and trade routes. It still comes down to the nitty gritty of, can you get a ship on a pontoon boat to go across the Amazon River? Can you survive the road of death? Yeah. Like, it still boils down to, like, these very simple things, and if you can't get over there, can you get a mule to take you and your family to go sell some goods. And so it's just all of these different things that that folks are dealing with in South America and
Grace Sharkey:
58:07
trying to, like, build again, like, like, chicken egg situation, like building that railroad with that infrastructure supporting it, right? It's like, God, how long would this take to even finish, right? So it's, it's interesting, and again, though, like one to consider when you, when you look at tariffs today and and just the political power across the world, right?
Blythe Brumleve:
58:31
Yeah, it feels like the United States is doing more like short term things, and China is thinking long term. Oh yeah, real. And that's, I think that's probably a good place to anything else you want to mention. You know, the think we covered a lot, yeah,
Grace Sharkey:
58:46
no, no, I think it's interesting. Yeah.
Blythe Brumleve:
58:51
I hope you enjoyed this episode of everything is logistics, a podcast for the thinkers in freight, telling the stories behind how your favorite stuff and people get from point A to B. Subscribe to the show, sign up for our newsletter and follow our socials over at everything is logistics.com and in addition to the podcast, I also wanted to let you all know about another company I operate, and that's digital dispatch, where we help you build a better website. Now, a lot of the times, we hand this task of building a new website or refreshing a current one off to a co worker's child, a neighbor down the street or stranger around the world, where you probably spend more time explaining the freight industry than it takes to actually build the dang website. Well, that doesn't happen at Digital dispatch. We've been building online since 2009 but we're also early adopters of AI automation and other website tactics that help your company to be a central place, to pull in all of your social media posts, recruit new employees and give potential customers a glimpse into how you operate your business. Our new website builds start as low as$1,500 along with ongoing website management, maintenance and updates. Start. At $90 a month, plus some bonus freight marketing and sales content similar to what you hear on the podcast. You can watch a quick explainer video over on digital dispatch.io, just check out the pricing page once you arrive, and you can see how we can build your digital ecosystem on a strong foundation. Until then, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'll see you all real soon and go jags. You.
