Blythe Brumleve
0:05
It's
that
time
of
the
year
when
the
days
between
Thanksgiving
and
the
New
Year
feels
like
one
giant
blur
,
but
it's
also
time
to
think
about
the
things
you
want
to
get
done
in
2024
,
so
what
better
way
to
get
a
handle
on
what
to
be
thinking
about
than
a
mega
episode
of
this
year's
best
shows
.
Blythe Brumleve
0:23
In
this
episode
,
we're
covering
the
trucking
segment
with
heavy
hitters
who
don't
shy
away
from
opinions
on
topics
like
health
,
driver
recruiting
,
technology
and
what
carriers
can
learn
from
the
yellow
bankruptcy
.
These
episodes
are
going
to
play
in
order
of
how
I
think
they
will
be
the
most
valuable
to
you
,
the
listener
,
but
if
you
want
to
jump
to
a
specific
part
,
I've
got
each
episode
time
stamped
as
well
as
the
link
back
to
the
original
episode
,
which
has
some
further
show
links
and
ways
to
get
in
touch
with
the
guests
or
topic
from
that
particular
episode
.
Lastly
,
thank
you
so
much
for
their
support
you've
given
this
show
during
our
first
year
of
going
fully
independent
.
While
these
best
of
compilations
are
airing
,
I'll
be
finalizing
the
first
part
of
2024's
content
plan
for
the
podcast
,
with
tons
of
new
content
on
the
way
,
not
only
on
the
podcast
,
but
over
on
our
YouTube
channel
as
well
.
Until
then
,
enjoy
,
and
I
hope
you
find
this
episode
helpful
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:18
Before
we
get
into
the
yellow
situation
,
give
folks
a
little
bit
of
an
understanding
of
your
career
background
.
Adam Wingfield
1:24
So
I
started
off
as
a
driver
.
I
started
off
as
a
company
driver
as
soon
as
I
was
old
enough
to
get
my
CDL
.
I
went
to
Schneider
and
I
went
to
a
training
school
and
I
got
my
CDL
license
to
drive
a
tractor
trailer
.
I
was
always
intrigued
by
it
.
I
always
loved
it
.
It
was
like
one
of
those
things
that
was
my
long-going
passion
was
to
always
be
in
the
industry
.
Adam Wingfield
1:45
A
couple
of
years
later
I
purchased
my
first
truck
,
became
an
owner
operator
and
then
I
really
that's
when
the
light
bulb
came
on
and
the
eyes
opened
up
a
lot
wider
that
the
industry
has
a
lot
of
components
in
it
and
a
young
kid
behind
the
wheel
of
a
truck
and
just
getting
out
there
and
understanding
that
I
didn't
realize
how
much
business
was
involved
to
it
at
that
time
.
Adam Wingfield
2:05
So
that
really
fueled
my
fire
to
make
sure
that
I
get
out
there
and
help
folks
to
understand
it
and
help
folks
navigate
through
it
.
So
that
was
just
the
foundational
start
and
principle
behind
it
that
as
years
go
by
and
my
fleet
grew
and
I
start
learning
more
and
more
about
the
business
and
I
start
seeing
other
people's
fail
.
It
really
was
a
pain
point
for
me
,
because
of
my
passion
is
to
make
sure
that
people
are
successful
,
especially
in
trucking
,
because
I
love
it
so
much
,
and
what
I
wanted
to
do
is
put
a
compelling
program
together
,
put
a
compelling
team
together
.
I
was
just
really
focused
on
helping
folks
navigate
the
right
way
through
it
,
with
all
of
the
stuff
that's
going
on
and
all
of
the
directions
that
are
out
there
.
So
that
kind
of
gives
a
little
background
of
me
and
just
a
really
really
small
nutshell
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:48
And
what
was
the
?
I
guess
the
moment
that
you
decided
that
you
were
going
to
,
because
you're
not
a
driver
anymore
correct
,
absolutely
.
You're
just
a
business
owner
and
educating
others
within
the
industry
right
.
Adam Wingfield
2:59
Yeah
,
I
retired
.
I
retired
from
behind
the
wheel
a
long
time
ago
,
but
I
did
put
a
million
miles
on
the
highway
.
So
that
was
a
lot
of
experience
,
a
lot
of
blue
collar
experience
,
and
I
always
told
myself
I
wanted
to
learn
from
the
inside
out
.
I
wanted
to
start
a
trucking
company
from
the
inside
out
.
I
didn't
want
to
get
into
it
without
knowing
the
intricacies
and
I
didn't
want
to
get
into
it
without
navigating
through
the
adaptions
that
needed
to
happen
.
But
when
I
came
outside
of
the
truck
and
I
really
started
seeing
it
more
of
an
executive
level
and
supporting
executive
level
companies
,
I
saw
how
much
opportunity
that
I
left
out
on
a
table
,
even
within
my
own
fleet
,
and
I'm
able
to
take
those
things
now
and
install
them
into
companies
as
well
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:37
And
what
were
some
of
those
things
that
you
noticed
,
that
you
didn't
realize
as
a
driver
?
Adam Wingfield
3:41
And
just
the
power
of
networking
and
relationships
.
That
was
just
so
impactful
because
,
even
as
a
driver
,
I
kind
of
like
make
it
as
a
parallel
to
a
corn
maze
.
If
you've
ever
done
Halloween
,
you
get
into
a
corn
maze
where
you
got
an
advocate
through
and
get
to
the
end
of
it
.
But
as
a
driver
,
you're
in
that
corn
maze
,
you're
just
trying
to
figure
it
out
,
you're
going
by
the
ebbs
and
the
flows
of
the
road
and
when
you
do
have
that
much
time
to
really
think
,
you
really
don't
see
it
from
a
big
picture
.
However
,
if
I'm
in
a
deer
stand
and
I'm
trying
to
help
you
navigate
through
a
corn
maze
,
I
can
say
,
hey
,
blythe
,
no
,
don't
turn
left
here
,
turn
right
Now
,
keep
going
straight
,
take
two
more
steps
,
go
right
.
And
that's
where
I
started
seeing
things
more
of
an
enterprise
level
and
seeing
it
as
an
enterprise
level
.
I'm
wanting
to
help
people
see
things
at
a
higher
level
too
.
I
want
to
see
people
help
think
,
people
see
through
from
a
scalability
perspective
.
So
,
just
looking
at
it
from
a
big
picture
establishing
better
relationships
,
going
out
to
different
events
even
though
it
might
not
be
truck
and
related
events
,
those
business
networking
events
I
started
to
notice
how
that
was
a
big
connector
for
me
,
because
you
may
be
introducing
yourself
to
someone
who
,
for
instance
,
I
met
a
local
city
councilman
one
time
and
we
were
just
out
in
a
networking
event
and
he
was
just
talking
about
this
huge
billion
dollar
project
that
they
were
working
on
in
the
city
and
they
needed
logistic
support
and
they
were
looking
for
a
consultancy
or
services
or
logistics
companies
that
can
help
support
that
.
Well
,
I
wouldn't
have
known
that
if
I
was
just
sitting
in
a
truck
stop
and
just
kind
of
chatting
back
and
forth
about
this
broker
doing
this
or
this
person
doing
that
.
So
it
opened
up
my
eyes
,
most
importantly
,
in
the
power
of
people
,
the
power
of
networking
with
people
.
Adam Wingfield
5:17
That
was
the
number
one
thing
that
I
identified
.
And
obviously
the
whole
tech
side
really
getting
involved
with
tech
on
that
side
and
showing
how
important
that
is
to
separate
yourself
from
other
carriers
,
because
it's
such
a
competitive
landscape
and
when
you're
able
to
identify
those
niches
that
you
can
specialize
in
and
the
differentiators
that
you
can
provide
,
it
makes
you
a
step
ahead
of
the
rest
.
And
I
didn't
see
that
I'm
just
going
to
be
honest
I
didn't
see
that
until
I
really
stepped
out
and
looked
at
it
from
a
higher
lens
and
then
there
was
no
one
that
was
talking
about
it
at
that
time
,
there
was
no
direction
.
Then
I
mean
,
to
be
honest
with
you
,
we
didn't
have
GPSs
,
we
had
Randy
McNally
Atlases
,
so
we
didn't
have
.
I
mean
,
you
got
to
think
about
that
time
.
But
now
that
we
are
in
the
area
of
technology
and
technology
is
becoming
so
much
of
a
part
of
what
we
do
,
using
the
power
of
that
technology
and
leveraging
it
in
our
own
businesses
is
something
that
I'm
really
,
really
,
really
really
held
in
on
that
right
now
.
Blythe Brumleve
6:14
What
about
the
drivers
,
I
guess
,
that
say
that
it's
too
much
technology
?
You're
taking
away
the
skill
set
of
the
driver
when
they
have
to
pay
attention
to
all
of
these
different
tools
that
some
drivers
are
very
good
,
that
they
don't
necessarily
,
they
feel
like
they
don't
necessarily
need
those
tools
.
What
is
sort
of
the
balance
,
I
guess
,
between
using
the
tools
and
ultimately
just
always
relying
on
them
?
Adam Wingfield
6:35
There's
always
over
leverage
,
you
know
,
and
there's
over
leverage
in
everything
,
you
know
.
There's
over
leverage
of
technology
,
there's
over
leverage
in
financing
and
,
just
like
you
said
,
there's
something
that
you
know
that
can
get
out
there
and
it
can
manage
and
adapt
.
But
when
you
have
,
for
instance
,
when
you
have
,
insurance
companies
and
I've
seen
several
insurance
companies
that
require
technology
in
the
cab
,
they
require
in
facing
cabs
,
they
require
safety
monitoring
,
so
they
were
requiring
on
those
things
to
help
lower
their
risk
you
know
it's
all
about
really
kind
of
communicating
the
why
and
really
,
when
it
comes
down
to
technology
and
the
speed
of
technology
,
the
most
important
thing
that
we're
doing
is
we're
really
trying
to
just
help
people
understand
the
speed
that
it's
coming
and
explaining
the
why
behind
it
and
really
trying
to
get
them
to
get
that
buy-ins
.
But
we
run
into
it
all
the
time
.
You
know
you
got
.
Adam Wingfield
7:22
You
know
there
was
a
making
carry
that
made
an
announcement
last
week
that
they
were
installing
dash
cams
as
a
primary
focus
in
their
fleet
and
they
were
moving
.
30
,
40
,
50
percent
of
their
fleet
is
going
to
be
all
in-face
and
dash
cams
by
the
end
of
the
year
.
So
it's
moving
very
quickly
and
they're
doing
that
because
of
the
risks
that
are
associated
and
involved
with
it
,
and
they're
trying
to
just
get
this
thing
more
in
line
with
being
a
really
true
federally
mandated
industry
,
and
safety
is
really
,
really
important
.
Blythe Brumleve
7:49
Yeah
,
it's
almost
like
one
of
those
things
where
I
think
for
a
lot
of
folks
they're
fearing
the
anxiety
of
like
tech
and
robots
and
AI
like
all
taking
over
.
I
think
it
all
plays
into
like
that
sort
of
larger
fear
set
.
When
you
break
it
down
a
little
bit
more
,
it's
like
well
you
know
,
especially
when
it
comes
to
like
marketing
and
sales
and
like
you
know
chat
.
Blythe Brumleve
8:09
GBT
,
things
like
that
.
I
definitely
want
to
ask
you
about
that
later
on
.
But
it's
one
of
those
things
where
it's
like
you
can
either
use
the
tools
and
use
them
to
your
advantage
or
you
know
the
cat
is
out
of
the
bag
,
like
it's
not
.
You
can't
put
the
toothpaste
bag
in
the
tube
.
It's
one
of
those
things
where
you
have
to
adapt
to
these
certain
situations
and
these
certain
requirements
and
these
,
I
guess
,
evolutions
of
technology
and
where
innovation
is
headed
.
And
I
think
you
know
,
with
that
being
said
,
it's
,
you
know
,
going
into
one
of
the
bigger
companies
,
the
largest
trucking
company
that
has
,
you
know
,
ever
gone
bankrupt
.
That
was
yellow
.
They
officially
filed
for
bankruptcy
this
week
.
It's
kind
of
been
in
the
works
for
,
you
know
,
a
few
weeks
now
,
maybe
months
.
For
folks
who
may
not
be
aware
of
the
entire
yellow
situation
,
how
did
we
get
here
?
Adam Wingfield
8:58
You
know
,
I
think
that
really
kind
of
boils
back
,
it
starts
over
.
You
want
to
go
back
to
deregulation
in
the
80s
and
you
know
yellow
was
around
for
a
very
,
very
long
time
.
I
think
they
were
about
to
hit
100
years
this
year
99
years
.
Adam Wingfield
9:10
So
when
you
go
back
to
deregulation
,
that
caused
a
lot
of
increased
competition
that
yellow
may
not
have
seen
before
and
you
know
,
as
they
kind
of
adapted
to
that
,
they
adapted
to
their
overall
competition
,
that
became
a
major
part
of
it
.
And
then
when
you
dropped
in
COVID
,
and
you
dropped
in
the
relief
that
they
received
from
COVID
,
that
$700
million
relief
that
they
received
from
COVID
,
and
the
inability
to
really
kind
of
go
back
,
and
number
one
,
when
you
have
the
government
saying
,
hey
,
oops
,
you
know
,
we
weren't
supposed
to
give
you
guys
that
money
which
could
tell
you
that
they
may
not
were
necessarily
qualified
for
a
variety
of
reasons
.
And
now
you
become
over
leveraged
in
financial
ability
,
now
you
over
leverage
your
available
capital
,
and
that
was
one
.
And
then
you
also
got
to
look
at
it
too
Labor
issues
are
always
going
to
be
a
major
component
of
the
industry
.
You
know
whether
any
blue
collar
industry
is
going
to
have
labor
issues
.
But
when
you
have
a
company
that
is
managing
their
labor
through
a
union
,
it
becomes
much
more
complex
and
in
some
cases
it
becomes
much
more
convoluted
.
So
now
you've
got
a
third
party
that's
saying
,
hey
,
listen
,
you
know
we
want
this
now
.
And
instead
of
having
those
independent
relationships
,
that
internal
human
resource
process
,
that
kind
of
leaves
it
into
a
third
party's
hand
.
And
I'm
not
,
you
know
,
I'm
not
going
to
say
I'm
for
or
against
unions
,
but
you
have
to
understand
what
happens
when
you
bring
a
workers
union
into
an
organization
.
You
got
to
look
at
the
pros
and
the
cons
and
things
that
can
happen
out
of
it
.
So
you
add
that
onto
that
and
then
you
look
at
their
overall
debt
load
,
right
?
Adam Wingfield
10:46
So
you
got
to
think
about
all
of
the
acquisitions
that
they
took
over
the
last
several
years
.
Adam Wingfield
10:50
They
acquired
a
lot
of
companies
and
they
acquired
some
big
companies
over
the
,
you
know
,
over
that
period
,
and
when
you
acquire
companies
and
you're
not
leveraging
that
,
you're
not
able
to
do
that
.
Adam Wingfield
11:01
I
think
all
of
that
kind
of
came
down
into
a
I
hate
to
say
a
perfect
storm
.
But
man
,
we
were
some
,
some
some
North
of
30,000
people
that
were
affected
,
and
we're
talking
about
14,000
tractors
and
40,000
trailers
and
22,000
drivers
,
and
these
are
just
,
you
know
,
obviously
these
are
not
not
official
numbers
but
from
what
I've
,
what
I've
seen
,
it's
impacted
a
lot
of
people
and
I
think
that
when
you
had
all
of
these
things
working
and
then
,
on
top
of
the
lower
demand
that
we're
seeing
and
you
know
,
and
now
you've
got
customers
that
when
I
talked
about
the
competition
for
a
part
,
when
you
hear
customers
saying
something
about
bankruptcy
,
you
know
,
now
you
got
customers
say
,
hey
,
I
might
want
to
move
my
freight
somewhere
else
.
And
you
know
,
even
though
they
were
given
a
30
day
extension
on
on
on
a
default
,
when
you
have
that
,
you
have
your
customers
running
.
You
know
.
From
that
perspective
,
I
think
that
that's
usually
a
weapon
for
people
.
There's
no
way
to
come
back
from
that
and
I
think
that
that's
how
he
got
to
that
point
.
Blythe Brumleve
11:52
Was
it
?
Was
it
really
just
the
customers
?
That
was
the
final
,
like
nail
in
the
coffin
for
them
leaving
.
Adam Wingfield
11:57
I
mean
,
if
you
look
at
it
from
that
perspective
,
they
lost
an
incredible
amount
of
freight
.
You
know
when
they
,
when
they
made
the
announcement
.
So
when
the
you
know
when
the
teamsters
said
,
hey
,
this
is
what's
going
to
happen
if
we
don't
tighten
up
.
And
now
your
customer
is
like
Whoa
.
You
know
when
that
happened
,
um
,
party
yellow
.
One
of
yellow's
statements
that
they
released
to
the
public
was
a
catastrophic
loss
in
customers
.
Adam Wingfield
12:17
And
when
you
think
about
that
word
catastrophic
,
you
know
,
when
you
think
about
demand
and
volume's
,
especially
in
this
particular
,
the
angst
.
In
order
for
me
to
pay
back
alone
,
I
have
to
have
receivables
to
do
so
.
And
if
my
customers
are
leaving
and
I
,
you
know
I'm
talking
about
catastrophic
.
And
you
use
the
word
catastrophic
,
um
,
to
describe
any
type
of
circumstance
,
we're
talking
about
a
major
,
major
dominating
effect
.
And
when
you
don't
have
those
customers
in
place
to
be
able
to
go
back
and
make
a
,
you
know
,
make
a
repayment
on
something
like
that
,
you
can
see
what
that
would
cause
that
to
you
,
to
,
to
,
to
almost
be
a
paid
place
of
no
return
.
So
at
that
point
the
executive
team
made
the
decision
and
say
you
know
what
,
there's
no
way
we're
going
to
be
able
to
come
back
from
this
.
You
know
,
here's
the
best
thing
that
we
can
do
at
this
point
,
and
I
think
that
that's
what
we
got
to
.
Blythe Brumleve
13:05
Why
do
you
think
that
they
played
this
?
I
mean
,
I
guess
it
just
felt
like
such
a
public
battle
.
It
was
like
almost
looking
at
like
your
parents
getting
divorced
and
you
have
like
a
front
row
seat
of
every
personal
detail
.
That's
why
did
it
play
out
so
publicly
.
Adam Wingfield
13:20
Man
,
I
,
you
know
,
I
tell
you
Blight
and
I'll
be
honest
with
you
,
social
media
is
a
gift
and
a
curse
and
you
know
,
some
people
over
leveraged
their
power
on
social
media
At
the
the
back
and
forth
.
When
you
look
at
some
of
the
posts
and
some
of
the
rhetoric
that
was
taking
place
,
it
was
some
really
,
really
aggressive
rhetoric
and
I
understand
that
part
of
it
was
perhaps
for
them
to
be
able
to
go
in
and
get
a
little
bit
more
leverage
.
But
it
was
,
it
was
it
was
it
was
quite
a
battle
and
it
was
quite
a
very
,
very
public
situation
and
I
hate
that
sometimes
social
media
provides
a
platform
in
that
,
in
that
realm
,
to
where
it's
kind
of
like
gloves
off
and
people
forget
about
handling
things
like
that
amicably
behind
closed
doors
and
it
just
got
messy
.
It
really
did
.
Blythe Brumleve
14:14
And
that's
so
.
I
I
worked
at
an
asset
base
um
3PL
,
you
know
,
about
12
years
ago
and
it
went
out
of
business
after
five
years
and
very
similar
,
you
know
,
not
very
similar
,
but
a
lot
of
the
the
situations
that
happened
publicly
.
It
very
much
reminded
me
of
what
was
going
on
back
then
,
where
you
executives
were
having
a
lot
of
closed
door
meetings
.
You
know
,
an
entire
intermodal
department
got
laid
off
.
We
had
outside
financing
that
came
in
to
try
to
save
the
company
.
Blythe Brumleve
14:43
There
were
a
lot
of
moments
that
it
felt
like
a
disaster
,
but
there
were
also
like
moments
of
hope
,
moments
of
okay
,
this
company
can
actually
be
saved
,
my
,
you
know
,
I
don't
have
to
switch
jobs
,
I
don't
have
to
worry
about
finding
a
new
job
,
and
it
felt
like
it
was
a
lot
of
that
was
happening
here
with
the
yellow
situation
,
where
the
final
couple
of
weeks
,
you
know
,
I've
I've
seen
a
couple
posts
from
you
know
a
few
executives
that
are
,
you
know
,
essentially
trying
to
hire
.
Blythe Brumleve
15:08
You
know
some
of
the
top
talent
that
worked
at
yellow
and
they
said
,
you
know
,
basically
,
the
last
couple
of
weeks
it
was
a
lot
of
confusion
and
a
lot
of
hope
and
it
felt
very
similar
to
to
to
my
situation
,
except
for
social
media
,
was
very
much
in
its
infancy
.
This
was
,
like
you
know
,
very
,
very
early
on
,
so
we
didn't
have
a
lot
of
that
playing
out
in
public
and
I
wonder
if
yellow
maybe
could
have
been
saved
if
it
wasn't
for
social
media
and
a
lot
of
you
know
,
a
lot
of
people
acting
as
sources
,
a
lot
of
people
acting
as
reporters
.
Do
you
get
a
sense
of
that
feeling
or
do
you
think
that
this
was
just
eventually
going
to
happen
?
Adam Wingfield
15:43
So
it
just
kind
of
reminds
me
of
being
on
an
airplane
.
You
know
a
pilot
is
going
to
go
through
,
you
know
through
the
worst
turbulence
,
and
he
knows
it's
going
to
happen
,
but
he's
not
going
to
say
all
right
,
everybody
,
it's
time
for
you
to
get
scared
.
All
right
,
everybody
,
it's
going
to
be
a
terrible
ride
.
You
know
you
might
feel
a
few
bumps
here
and
there
.
You
know
it's
going
to
be
a
little
choppy
.
So
they
try
to
do
what
they
do
is
they
try
to
lower
that
angst
.
And
you
know
,
to
be
honest
with
you
,
I
don't
think
that
social
media
was
necessary
to
kind
of
like
the
,
you
know
,
kind
of
like
the
nail
in
a
coffin
.
But
I
do
feel
like
the
rhetoric
and
I
do
feel
like
,
like
you
said
,
you
got
so
many
people
reporting
and
you
got
so
many
people
put
pressure
on
you
.
You
got
so
many
people
posting
,
drivers
upset
,
and
then
it
does
.
It
does
weigh
in
.
It
does
weigh
in
because
of
the
reach
that
social
media
has
put
out
there
.
Adam Wingfield
16:28
I
think
the
demise
of
yellow
,
whether
public
or
private
,
was
inevitable
just
because
of
some
of
the
decisions
that
were
made
at
the
executive
level
,
and
the
executive
level
decisions
that
were
made
they're
people
too
,
you
know
,
at
the
end
of
the
day
,
and
I
know
that
and
I
feel
,
you
know
,
I
feel
,
I
feel
I
feel
very
,
very
,
you
know
,
sorry
that
they
had
to
make
those
decisions
because
now
you're
talking
about
,
you
know
,
affecting
in
so
many
people
and
it
was
so
many
hardworking
people
that
got
affected
.
We
talked
about
pensions
that
were
lost
.
You
know
,
I
looked
at
the
severance
package
and
I
was
like
,
wow
,
you
know
,
you're
working
in
27
years
and
you
only
get
a
two
week
paid
a
severance
package
.
It
was
just
,
it
was
just
a
nightmare
for
folks
.
But
at
the
end
of
the
day
,
I
don't
feel
like
social
media
was
the
nail
in
the
coffin
,
but
it
certainly
wasn't
.
It
certainly
wasn't
helpful
.
Blythe Brumleve
17:17
Yeah
,
I
like
that
you
brought
that
up
because
that
was
exactly
what
happened
and
in
my
situation
,
where
we
but
it
wasn't
social
media
related
it
was
one
person
from
another
company
telling
me
hey
,
I
,
you
know
,
we're
,
we're
hearing
that
you're
running
out
of
runway
and
you
need
to
start
looking
for
another
job
.
And
I
told
my
brother
,
who
also
worked
at
the
company
.
And
then
you
know
,
of
course
,
like
that
starts
going
around
to
to
everyone
and
it
creates
a
form
of
panic
and
fear
.
My
boss
had
to
pull
me
aside
and
tell
me
you
can't
tell
people
stuff
like
this
because
it's
going
to
incite
fear
among
the
employees
.
And
you
know
,
eventually
it
was
the
nail
in
the
coffin
for
that
situation
where
the
executives
,
the
executive
leadership
team
,
choosing
to
leave
and
to
go
somewhere
else
.
And
that
was
that
.
That
was
sort
of
the
end
of
the
line
for
us
and
it
just
felt
so
very
similar
.
Blythe Brumleve
18:05
And
I
could
not
imagine
being
one
of
those
employees
and
seeing
the
different
social
media
messages
,
seeing
my
job
,
my
career
,
my
livelihood
being
turned
into
memes
which
you
know
,
that's
another
social
media
aspect
of
it
too
where
it's
like
,
oh
God
,
that
would
just
kill
me
if
I
was
in
their
position
and
I
would
see
people
making
I
mean
,
it
is
the
internet
,
so
you
know
,
to
each
their
own
.
But
that
was
one
thing
that
I
was
very
consciously
like
.
I'm
not
going
to
make
fun
of
this
situation
because
the
people
who
mostly
affected
are
the
ones
that
have
nothing
to
do
with
the
decisions
that
were
being
made
Absolutely
,
absolutely
.
Blythe Brumleve
18:39
And
so
I
saw
a
tweet
that
you
you
said
recently
and
it
said
to
this
day
the
most
disturbing
thing
that
I
come
across
in
the
industry
is
the
amount
of
company
owners
,
large
and
small
,
that
don't
have
an
idea
on
the
cost
of
operating
a
truck
.
The
single
truck
owners
concern
me
the
most
because
everything
is
on
the
line
with
one
truck
.
Now
,
because
of
that
,
that
statement
,
what
?
And
because
of
yellow
,
what
can
other
,
you
know
sort
of
smaller
carriers
,
even
owner
operators
,
what
can
they
learn
from
the
situation
?
Adam Wingfield
19:07
You
know
,
I
think
that
the
yellow
freight
situation
opened
a
lot
of
people's
eyes
up
to
the
,
you
know
,
to
the
overall
hey
,
you
know
what
.
Nobody
is
exempt
from
the
cause
and
effect
of
poor
,
just
oversight
within
the
market
,
and
particularly
with
your
own
company
.
And
I
you
know
that
that
tweet
is
really
it's
alive
and
well
and
conversations
that
have
been
taking
place
with
,
with
,
with
clients
and
other
folks
for
for
decades
now
,
and
one
of
the
things
that
that
that
disturbed
me
the
most
.
And
I
even
had
a
conversation
with
a
recent
,
a
recent
person
who
was
saying
you
know
,
I
was
just
making
sure
that
every
load
that
I
got
was
paying
at
least
202
a
mile
,
but
then
we
go
into
the
breakeven
analysis
and
take
a
look
at
exactly
what
it
costs
to
operate
all
the
equipment
and
then
breakeven
analysis
had
them
come
in
at
227
.
So
if
you're
running
in
that
227
in
order
for
your
truck
to
make
money
and
in
your
mind
you're
thinking
that
you're
doing
well
at
two
bucks
,
then
that's
a
huge
problem
and
what's
going
to
eventually
happen
is
you're
going
to
do
those
things
Right
I
talked
about
earlier
.
You're
going
to
over
leverage
capital
right
,
overage
available
capital
,
because
you're
trying
to
have
that
capital
,
continue
to
fund
your
business
with
the
hope
that
rates
turn
around
and
not
really
understanding
,
hey
,
you
know
what
?
This
whole
time
I
was
running
my
trucking
company
at
this
operational
point
,
when
it
actually
cost
me
to
operate
this
company
,
my
whole
strategy
was
wrong
,
my
whole
focus
and
approach
was
wrong
,
and
those
are
the
decisions
that
can
ultimately
put
you
out
of
business
very
,
very
quickly
.
Adam Wingfield
20:40
So
I
think
that
for
me
,
why
it's
so
important
to
education
and
it's
so
important
that
our
narrative
is
just
really
teaching
people
how
to
run
a
business
and
I
say
that
with
the
utmost
respect
to
anyone
but
just
because
I
can
cook
a
cheeseburger
or
I
can
make
a
pizza
doesn't
mean
that
I
can
start
up
a
successful
franchise
or
for
a
successful
restaurant
.
The
business
components
have
to
be
the
overarching
theme
and
then
everything
else
is
just
kind
of
the
layer
on
the
cake
and
what
we
have
to
do
is
we
have
to
get
into
the
economical
side
from
that
perspective
,
we've
got
to
look
at
the
professional
side
and
we've
got
to
get
better
at
business
acumen
.
And
that
tweet
was
really
focused
on
really
just
opening
up
the
awareness
that
the
overarching
acumen
for
business
,
as
from
that
perspective
,
and
the
financial
acumen
that's
required
to
run
a
trucking
company
is
oversight
to
so
many
people
Because
,
again
,
like
you
said
,
what
they
do
a
lot
of
education
is
.
I'm
going
to
get
on
Facebook
and
I'm
going
to
join
a
Facebook
group
and
I'm
going
to
say
,
hey
,
what
do
you
guys
think
about
this
load
here
,
and
then
you're
going
to
have
100
people
comment
on
it
and
say
,
hey
,
no
,
don't
take
that
.
You
need
to
take
it
for
$7
a
mile
or
sit
the
truck
down
and
shut
it
down
.
Adam Wingfield
21:55
You
got
people
getting
information
from
so
many
different
directions
that
they
really
don't
know
where
to
go
and
unfortunately
,
I
see
that
all
the
time
in
my
team
.
We
see
those
things
happen
.
I'm
talking
about
100s
of
times
a
day
where
people
are
misguided
.
And
you
got
to
look
at
the
statistics
.
At
the
end
of
the
day
,
80%
of
trucking
companies
that
start
within
two
years
fail
80%
eight
out
of
10,
.
We
have
51,000
trucking
companies
go
out
of
business
this
year
,
right
?
So
you're
talking
about
that
.
These
folks
are
not
just
going
out
of
business
because
of
you
know
,
this
is
the
market
.
The
market
is
part
of
it
,
right
,
their
overall
spot
market
is
part
of
it
,
but
people
are
going
out
of
business
because
they
didn't
know
what
to
expect
coming
in
.
They
weren't
prepared
for
the
ups
and
downs
,
the
ebbs
and
flows
.
So
that
tweet
was
really
,
really
,
really
guided
and
directed
to
get
people
to
wake
up
and
start
focusing
on
their
business
,
because
without
the
business
,
none
of
this
other
stuff
would
take
place
.
Blythe Brumleve
22:53
Are
you
in
freight
sales
with
a
book
of
business
looking
for
a
new
home
,
or
perhaps
you're
a
freight
agent
in
need
of
a
better
partnership
?
These
are
the
kinds
of
conversations
we're
exploring
in
our
podcast
interview
series
called
the
freight
agent
trenches
,
sponsored
by
SPI
logistics
.
Now
I
can
tell
you
all
day
that
SPI
is
one
of
the
most
successful
logistics
firms
in
North
America
,
who
helps
their
agents
with
back
office
operations
,
such
as
admin
,
finance
,
it
and
sales
.
But
I
would
much
rather
you
hear
it
directly
from
SPI's
freight
agents
themselves
,
and
what
better
way
to
do
that
than
by
listening
to
the
experienced
freight
agents
tell
their
stories
behind
the
how
and
the
why
they
joined
SPI
?
Hit
the
freight
agent
link
in
our
show
notes
to
listen
to
these
conversations
or
,
if
you're
ready
to
make
the
jump
,
visit
SPI3PLcom
.
Blythe Brumleve
23:42
And
I'm
glad
that
you
brought
that
up
,
because
during
COVID
and
during
sort
of
the
2020
,
2021
,
we
saw
so
much
freight
hitting
the
market
,
but
we
also
saw
a
lot
of
sort
of
fly
by
night
trucking
experts
selling
courses
and
creating
informational
products
in
order
to
sell
people
to
get
into
the
game
,
and
I'm
almost
like
a
pyramid
scheme
for
a
lot
of
these
folks
.
What
were
the
lessons
that
,
or
what
are
the
lessons
that
you
teach
to
sort
of
counteract
that
quick
,
easy
money
?
What
are
some
of
those
line
items
,
those
break
even
points
that
most
people
are
missing
from
their
business
,
that
they're
not
calculating
for
?
Adam Wingfield
24:21
So
one
of
the
things
as
a
strategy
,
one
of
the
things
that
we
teach
on
any
break
even
,
is
that
every
mile
matters
.
Every
mile
matters
.
So
when
I
say
every
mile
matters
,
every
mile
that
that
truck
rotates
,
every
time
that
that
tire
makes
one
complete
turn
,
it
has
to
pay
everything
from
an
amortization
standpoint
.
What
I
mean
by
that
is
that
everything
that
you
have
,
every
expense
that's
associated
with
that
truck
,
regardless
of
what
that
load
pays
,
regardless
of
you
moving
in
deadhead
every
time
the
tire
rotates
,
your
costs
are
being
paid
for
.
So
when
I
say
that
,
I'm
saying
over
that
12
months
,
you
have
everything
from
your
fixed
expenses
,
which
is
your
truck
payment
,
your
trailer
payment
,
insurance
.
Those
are
your
fixed
.
But
then
it's
also
paying
for
all
your
variable
expenses
.
It's
paying
for
things
that
people
don't
consider
,
like
your
factor
and
fees
.
Typically
,
on
a
year
on
one
truck
,
your
factor
and
fees
on
average
is
about
$7,000
.
But
yet
when
an
owner
operator
goes
in
and
he's
looking
at
that
P&L
and
looking
at
that
cost
assessment
,
when
you're
looking
at
a
load
in
this
overall
totality
,
usually
what
an
owner
operating
a
small
fleet
on
it
considers
is
fuel
,
driver
pay
and
maybe
a
couple
of
the
other
exosutorials
and
that's
it
and
they
say
okay
,
here's
the
net
.
And
I'm
going
to
tell
you
,
one
of
the
things
that
aggravated
me
the
most
is
when
I
saw
these
fly
by
night
course
creators
and
gurus
on
the
internet
and
on
social
media
during
the
pandemic
.
You
would
see
them
posting
rate
cons
and
they
would
post
a
rate
con
from
a
CH
,
Robinson
or
TQL
and
the
rate
con
would
be
like
$2,600
and
they
would
put
$2,600
minus
fuel
,
minus
driver
pay
,
total
profit
.
And
that
is
absolutely
the
wrong
answer
.
There's
so
much
more
that
is
associated
with
an
income
item
,
because
with
every
income
item
you
have
to
associate
the
expense
items
with
it
as
well
.
Net
profit
is
net
profit
.
It's
at
the
bottom
of
the
barrel
,
it's
the
last
thing
.
You
as
a
business
owner
,
you
as
an
owner
operator
,
you
get
paid
last
,
after
everything
is
considered
.
So
when
we
talk
about
a
break-even
analysis
and
we
talk
about
the
importance
of
understanding
what
that
looks
like
,
everything
has
to
be
in
consideration
prior
to
you
saying
,
okay
,
you
know
what
,
here's
my
profit
.
Adam Wingfield
26:29
So
our
message
has
always
been
you
know
,
the
tire
turns
.
The
tire
turns
is
what
causes
the
business
to
turn
.
And
the
thing
that
we
really
really
saw
during
the
pandemic
is
we
saw
people
take
advantage
of
the
market
from
that
perspective
.
We
saw
people
getting
into
the
business
brand
new
,
fresh
.
We
saw
people
that
were
experts
,
that
just
got
in
a
truck
in
after
a
year
.
Right
,
and
one
season
doesn't
make
you
an
expert
.
One
good
season
doesn't
make
you
a
good
expert
,
and
then
one
bad
season
doesn't
make
you
a
failure
.
And
what
we're
wanting
to
make
people
understand
is
that
you
have
to
see
the
full
scope
.
You've
got
to
have
some
experience
into
it
and
there's
a
difference
when
you
speak
from
experience
versus
speaking
from
opinion
.
Blythe Brumleve
27:13
Facts
.
Yeah
,
very
well
said
,
and
I'm
sure
for
a
lot
of
these
folks
,
you
know
,
for
a
lot
of
these
business
owners
,
they're
trying
to
find
where
those
opportunities
are
to
not
only
break
even
but
make
a
little
bit
extra
during
these
hard
times
.
So
there
are
any
sort
of
,
you
know
,
low
hanging
fruit
opportunities
that
they
could
be
looking
for
in
their
own
financial
statements
.
Or
is
it
just
as
simple
and
as
hard
as
just
figuring
out
that
break
even
point
?
Adam Wingfield
27:39
I
think
one
of
the
things
is
and
I
don't
and
when
we
talk
about
the
break
even
point
,
we're
not
we're
not
wanting
to
get
that
misconstrued
with
telling
people
they
need
to
operate
at
the
break
even
point
.
Adam Wingfield
27:48
What
we're
doing
is
we're
telling
people
to
understand
exactly
what
that
is
.
And
then
you
focus
on
the
next
item
that
we
preach
,
which
is
your
operational
run
rate
.
That
operational
run
rate
is
like
,
say
,
if
I
say
,
hey
,
blithe
,
you
know
,
just
from
a
forecasting
,
or
just
from
a
longterm
perspective
,
what
are
your
goals
?
Well
,
you
know
what
?
My
profit
goals
are
20%
,
right
.
So
if
your
profit
goals
are
20%
and
your
break
even
point
is
$2
,
then
you
know
that
your
operational
run
rate
would
have
to
be
20%
of
$2
.
So
that
would
be
240
.
So
now
,
blithe
knows
that
,
at
the
end
of
the
day
,
every
opportunity
I
have
to
secure
freight
at
240
above
will
keep
me
on
track
with
my
goals
and
my
visions
for
my
company
,
for
my
independent
you
know
,
my
independent
company
for
my
fleet
,
whatever
that
may
look
like
.
So
we
want
to
really
teach
the
importance
of
the
break
even
.
The
break
even
is
your
base
,
it's
your
floor
,
it's
your
foundation
.
You
know
your
break
even
is
how
you
build
your
house
.
Your
operational
run
rate
is
your
fixtures
,
your
you
know
your
dishes
,
your
you
know
all
of
the
other
great
stuff
that
you
put
on
the
top
of
it
.
I
want
people
to
understand
and
respect
both
.
I
want
people
to
understand
the
importance
of
understanding
why
the
break
even
point
matters
.
But
also
from
a
business
owner
,
and
your
business
owner
as
well
,
you
understand
like
,
hey
,
we
can't
plan
for
tomorrow
or
Friday
,
we're
planning
for
,
okay
,
all
right
,
now
we're
in
Q1
or
2024
.
What
are
our
goals
for
Q1
or
2024
?
What
are
our
goals
for
Q2
?
What
are
we
looking
at
?
What
customer
relationships
are
we
setting
ourselves
up
for
?
And
I
want
small
carriers
to
have
a
big
carrier
mindset
when
they're
doing
these
things
,
when
they're
going
out
and
they're
building
these
relationships
and
they're
focusing
on
that
financial
literacy
and
acumen
within
their
business
.
So
that's
the
reason
why
we're
so
so
strong
on
the
break
even
point
,
because
it's
getting
them
to
see
where
their
foundation
is
.
It's
getting
them
to
understand
that
their
foundation's
changed
.
But
,
most
importantly
,
it's
giving
them
that
floor
that
they
can
build
their
goals
off
of
and
it's
giving
them
that
floor
that
they
can
establish
their
projection
.
Adam Wingfield
29:48
Now
,
if
I
know
where
my
break
even
point
is
.
Now
I
know
I
can
say
,
okay
,
cool
,
all
right
,
you
know
what
?
I
want
to
make
a
15%
profit
in
Q1
.
This
is
how
we're
going
to
do
it
.
Okay
,
15%
profit
in
Q1
.
Now
I've
got
a
book
at
230
a
mile
.
I
got
to
make
sure
that
at
the
end
of
every
week
I'm
going
to
win
some
,
I'm
going
to
lose
some
,
but
at
the
average
I
need
to
be
at
230
.
And
if
I'm
not
at
230
,
then
next
week
that
means
I've
got
to
book
more
.
I
got
to
book
a
higher
rate
so
I
can
help
bring
myself
up
to
that
average
.
So
it's
all
about
teaching
them
that
part
,
and
I
think
that
that's
the
most
important
thing
is
teaching
them
the
business
side
of
it
.
And
then
also
,
you
know
,
to
be
quite
frank
,
it's
teaching
them
to
get
off
of
spot
market
reliance
and
starting
to
focus
on
building
their
own
direct
,
their
own
customers
,
their
own
freight
example
,
so
where
they
don't
have
to
focus
so
much
on
the
ebb
and
the
flows
of
the
spot
market
.
Blythe Brumleve
30:40
And
so
what
I
guess
is
maybe
some
of
the
lessons
learned
not
just
from
yellow
,
but
from
everything
that
you
just
mentioned
.
The
market
is
what
it
is
.
You
know
there's
predictions
that
it's
going
to
be
better
in
the
Q4
,
that
it's
going
to
be
better
especially
in
2024
.
So
our
business
is
going
to
be
able
to
survive
this
you
know
sort
of
,
I
guess
,
economic
turmoil
until
those
things
pick
up
.
Or
is
it
still
very
,
very
plausible
that
you
can
survive
as
a
small
carrier
if
you're
doing
everything
that
you
said
?
You
know
you
have
your
operational
costs
and
then
you
have
your
profit
margins
that
you
want
to
go
after
.
Are
those
things
realistic
in
a
market
like
this
?
Adam Wingfield
31:21
They're
realistic
,
they're
not
easy
.
They're
realistic
but
they're
not
easy
because
you
know
we're
at
the
mercy
in
a
spot
condition
.
You're
at
the
mercy
of
whatever
happens
.
So
when
yellow
went
out
,
right
,
so
what
that
is
going
to
do
,
obviously
it's
going
to
increase
demand
on
the
LTL
side
,
which
is
going
to
increase
demand
on
truckload
side
.
Just
be
,
obviously
it's
a
cause
and
effect
and
that
was
something
that
nobody
predicted
.
So
the
spot
market
is
so
unpredictable
.
Adam Wingfield
31:49
And
when
I
think
about
that
and
I
think
about
,
you
know
,
the
small
carrier
and
the
plausibility
of
being
able
to
survive
these
marketplaces
,
you
can
,
as
long
as
you
know
where
your
floor
is
,
as
long
as
you
know
how
to
be
able
to
control
your
variable
costs
,
because
the
only
thing
that
you
can
control
are
your
variable
expenses
.
Somewhat
you're
fixed
.
You
can
control
that
somewhat
,
but
once
you
purchase
that
truck
,
your
truck
payment
is
what
it
is
,
your
trailer
payment
is
what
it
is
,
your
insurance
is
already
is
what
it
is
,
but
being
able
to
know
how
to
lower
your
variable
expense
footprint
because
that's
what
you
can
control
.
I
can't
control
the
spot
market
.
You
know
I
can
control
it
.
There's
nobody
that
has
a
crystal
ball
.
I
can
say
okay
,
guys
,
january
17th
,
it's
on
it's
carrier
go
season
.
Nobody's
going
to
be
able
to
tell
you
that
,
because
nobody
knows
when
a
yellow
freight
is
going
to
file
for
bankruptcy
,
when
a
sell-a-don
is
going
to
file
for
bankruptcy
,
when
COVID
becomes
a
pandemic
.
Nobody
knows
that
stuff
.
So
you
got
to
focus
on
the
preparation
and
you
got
to
focus
on
making
sure
that
you
demand
control
over
your
own
business
and
become
I
tell
you
,
and
I
say
this
all
the
time
,
if
you're
going
to
be
the
CEO
of
your
company
,
you
need
to
act
like
it
,
and
you
need
to
act
like
it
with
integrity
and
you
need
to
act
like
it
with
an
intention
,
because
there's
things
that
you're
going
to
be
able
to
control
within
anything
,
but
those
things
that
you
can't
control
.
You
got
to
be
able
to
focus
your
attention
on
the
things
that
you
can
,
and
I
think
that
plausibility
is
yes
,
it's
absolutely
there
.
Adam Wingfield
33:13
We
still
have
small
carriers
out
there
that's
fighting
and
scrapping
and
still
staying
in
the
game
.
How
long
they're
going
to
be
able
to
do
that
,
it
all
depends
.
We
don't
know
what's
happening
out
in
Ukraine
and
what
that's
going
to
do
with
fuel
prices
.
We
don't
know
if
we're
going
to
see
a
spike
like
we
saw
in
November
and
December
last
year
when
diesel
prices
went
through
the
roof
.
We
don't
know
that
.
Adam Wingfield
33:34
So
the
small
carriers
that
are
really
trying
to
stay
into
it
we
got
to
make
sure
that
we
stay
in
tune
with
every
single
line
item
every
single
day
.
Every
mile
per
hour
,
every
mile
per
gallon
matters
,
and
we've
got
to
teach
these
small
carriers
out
here
to
focus
on
that
,
versus
on
oh
my
God
,
the
brokers
out
here
to
screw
us
or
oh
my
God
,
the
government's
out
here
to
take
us
all
out
of
business
.
Listen
,
we
can
say
that
all
day
long
,
we
can
get
back
and
forth
with
the
opinions
on
that
all
day
long
,
but
the
fact
of
the
matter
is
you
need
to
know
your
business
and
you
need
to
run
it
like
you're
the
CEO
of
the
company
.
Blythe Brumleve
34:04
And
you
had
mentioned
just
now
about
these
carriers
getting
off
of
the
load
boards
,
getting
off
of
the
spot
market
.
Where
are
you
seeing
some
,
I
guess
,
moments
of
success
for
businesses
who
are
doing
that
?
How
do
you
reach
out
to
a
customer
?
How
do
you
develop
a
relationship
with
a
broker
rep
?
What
do
those
steps
look
like
?
Adam Wingfield
34:25
Yeah
,
I
love
it
because
here's
first
of
all
,
you
got
to
remember
your
brokers
are
your
customers
At
the
end
of
the
day
.
That's
one
of
the
things
that
I
see
.
A
lot
of
small
carriers
don't
approach
the
conversation
like
that
.
If
Blythe's
the
broker
and
Blythe's
providing
me
freight
and
I'm
moving
freight
for
her
,
blythe
is
my
customer
.
I
have
to
nurture
that
relationship
,
whether
or
not
,
and
regardless
of
all
the
noise
out
here
,
it's
oh
yeah
,
blythe's
the
broker
,
the
broker's
out
here
to
screw
the
small
carriers
.
Well
,
in
this
instance
,
blythe
is
my
customer
and
I've
got
to
provide
Blythe
with
exceptional
customer
service
.
I
got
to
make
sure
I
pick
up
on
time
,
I
got
to
make
sure
I
deliver
on
time
,
I
got
to
make
sure
I
over
communicate
and
I
got
to
make
sure
to
ask
for
feedback
,
right
.
So
I
got
to
ask
her
how
did
I
do
?
What
can
I
do
to
get
better
?
What
can
I
do
to
make
sure
that
I'm
positioning
and
I'm
at
the
top
of
your
mind
to
be
the
one
that
,
if
you
came
across
a
really
,
really
good
lane
,
I
would
be
the
first
person
that
you
call
?
Because
I'm
going
to
tell
you
this
Spot
market
freight
is
a
broker's
last
option
period
.
Adam Wingfield
35:21
That's
the
last
option
.
That's
the
bottom
of
the
barrel
.
It's
the
dirtiest
of
apples
.
It's
just
putting
it
on
a
low
board
and
hoping
a
carrier
with
integrity
takes
it
off
the
low
board
and
gets
it
from
point
A
to
point
B
.
That's
the
fact
of
it
.
And
here's
the
thing
.
A
broker
is
a
third
party
.
In
the
media
area
,
shippers
rather
work
with
brokers
,
especially
because
they
have
the
fingertips
on
all
the
capacity
.
That's
the
way
it
is
.
So
,
instead
of
getting
caught
up
in
the
whole
whether
it's
propaganda
or
whatever
you
want
to
think
about
it
not
just
nurture
a
relationship
.
Blythe's
a
broker
,
but
guess
what
?
Blythe
is
still
a
person
and
she's
a
cool
person
.
I
like
talking
to
Blythe
.
Those
are
the
things
that
we
have
to
get
through
to
folks'
head
.
That's
number
one
.
Number
two
is
and
from
a
success
standpoint
I
did
an
Instagram
live
about
a
month
ago
and
I
got
on
a
live
and
I
was
just
talking
about
things
like
making
sure
that
you're
treating
your
brokers
like
customers
,
getting
on
there
and
focus
on
digital
freight
matching
services
,
like
your
Emerge
Technologies
,
getting
out
there
and
making
sure
that
you're
doing
things
such
as
going
to
networking
events
that
might
not
be
trucking
related
.
Adam Wingfield
36:23
I'm
not
talking
about
going
out
to
these
conferences
.
I'm
talking
about
the
networking
events
that
in
your
area
,
in
your
cities
,
in
your
towns
,
where
you
can
go
out
and
if
anybody
is
in
this
zip
code
,
they
know
exactly
what
Adam
does
.
What
you
see
and
you
realize
a
lot
of
times
I
talked
about
this
on
stage
about
a
year
ago
is
that
you
see
folks
that
run
trucking
companies
in
these
towns
,
in
these
cities
,
but
have
no
idea
who
the
shippers
and
manufacturers
and
distributors
.
They
have
no
idea
,
no
clue
who
these
people
are
.
You
think
about
that
.
How
can
,
if
you
come
to
Charlotte
,
you
can't
come
to
Charlotte
and
people
don't
know
what
I
do
?
Because
I'm
getting
out
there
.
Adam Wingfield
37:00
I'm
going
to
networking
events
and
even
when
I
started
really
getting
on
the
educational
side
of
trucking
,
I
was
at
every
single
networking
event
and
I
was
the
only
person
in
trucking
at
these
networking
events
.
It
was
small
business
networking
events
and
I'm
talking
to
people
,
letting
them
know
exactly
what
I'm
doing
.
So
just
two
things
I'm
doing
I'm
bringing
about
awareness
,
so
they're
like
well
,
I
didn't
realize
that
that's
an
option
.
And
number
two
,
I'm
making
connections
,
because
now
these
folks
,
when
they
have
these
conversations
,
these
large
scale
environments
,
they're
like
wait
a
minute
,
I'll
talk
to
this
guy
the
other
day
.
I
have
his
card
and
that's
exactly
what
he
does
.
Let
me
connect
you
with
this
person
.
So
really
focusing
on
connections
.
Adam Wingfield
37:34
But
you
know
,
one
of
the
things
that
I
see
people
struggle
with
is
they
struggle
with
basic
communication
.
I
hate
to
say
that
.
It
reminds
me
of
my
children
.
I
love
them
to
death
,
but
when
these
cell
phones
and
tablets
and
all
these
things
became
part
of
our
norm
,
the
new
norm
is
not
.
You
know
,
hey
,
hey
,
blife
,
how
you
doing
.
Let's
meet
for
coffee
and
let's
have
a
conversation
.
The
norm
now
is
just
being
on
Twitter
and
seeing
what
everybody
else
is
saying
,
or
being
on
threads
or
whatever
you
call
it
,
or
being
on
Facebook
and
really
not
being
able
to
go
out
and
communicate
.
Adam Wingfield
38:09
So
I
see
a
lot
of
people
who
feel
entitled
.
Because
I've
got
a
truck
in
a
trailer
with
53
feet
of
space
,
I'm
entitled
and
you
should
give
me
your
dedicated
free
.
Well
,
I'm
sorry
,
buddy
,
that's
not
how
it
works
.
You
and
a
million
other
trucks
out
there
.
I
have
the
option
.
You
tell
me
why
I
need
to
choose
you
versus
anybody
else
.
The
way
that
happens
is
I
first
.
I've
got
a
nurture
relationship
.
It
would
be
like
if
I
would
send
you
mentioned
email
marketing
and
how
chat
GBT
has
helped
email
marketing
.
Could
you
imagine
if
I
just
just
,
in
one
email
,
just
say
,
hey
,
buy
this
for
me
.
You
know
you
need
to
buy
it
right
now
.
That's
not
how
it
works
.
Sometimes
it's
a
four
.
You're
in
sales
,
sometimes
four
,
sometimes
five
points
at
,
sometimes
six
,
sometimes
seven
different
contact
points
that
you're
making
and
nurture
that
relationship
and
I'll
never
forget
.
You
know
,
this
is
a
.
This
is
a
story
that
I
will
never
forget
.
Adam Wingfield
38:56
I
was
,
I
was
coaching
a
customer
and
she
had
nine
trucks
and
she
was
in
the
Dallas
area
and
she
was
you
know
,
and
she
was
on
the
spot
market
and
we
were
trying
to
get
her
off
the
spot
market
.
And
one
day
I
was
just
watching
her
,
I
was
just
talking
on
the
zoom
and
she
was
in
her
kitchen
and
in
the
back
of
the
kitchen
she
had
to
.
I
was
just
like
hold
on
for
a
second
,
I've
got
to
pull
this
out
of
the
oven
.
And
so
she
goes
to
the
oven
and
she
pulls
some
cookies
out
of
them
and
I'm
joking
.
I
was
like
man
,
I
can
smell
those
cookies
all
the
way
over
here
.
I
was
like
you
should
leverage
that
.
So
you
know
what
she
did
.
She
went
to
the
Pepsi
place
and
it
was
like
a
Pepsi
shipper
that
was
in
her
area
and
she
started
connecting
and
networking
with
the
folks
over
at
the
Pepsi
facility
.
Adam Wingfield
39:37
Well
,
fast
forward
to
story
.
Adam Wingfield
39:39
So
one
Friday
she
baked
cookies
and
sent
them
over
to
the
office
.
Guess
what
?
That
Monday
she
was
meeting
and
she
crewed
her
dedicated
lane
through
Pepsi
,
because
she
just
became
a
human
for
a
second
.
You're
a
human
at
first
.
Right
,
act
like
it
.
You
know
what
I'm
saying
.
Act
like
this
is
not
new
to
you
.
To
be
able
to
communicate
,
and
you
know
.
Adam Wingfield
40:00
The
crazy
thing
is
that
at
the
end
of
the
day
,
it's
not
about
what
you
know
,
it's
about
who
you
know
.
Right
,
but
how
do
you
get
to
who
you
know
?
How
do
I
know
?
How
did
I
know
?
Well
,
I
got
to
open
my
mouth
and
talk
hey
,
how
are
you
doing
?
What
do
you
do
?
Hey
,
this
is
what
I
do
.
That
element
is
missing
.
It's
missing
because
I
feel
that
the
internet
has
put
a
lot
of
pressure
on
people
and
I
also
feel
that
people
just
forgot
there
.
You
know
,
it's
almost
like
that
whole
social
distancing
that
we've
experienced
over
that
year
.
Covid
became
an
ideology
that
we're
now
social
distancing
ourselves
from
each
other
,
and
it's
really
getting
in
between
us
.
It's
getting
in
between
our
ability
to
be
able
to
work
together
.
That's
kind
of
how
I
feel
about
that
situation
.
Blythe Brumleve
40:44
I
noticed
,
when
you
were
listing
off
the
things
that
you
know
these
carriers
should
be
doing
,
that
you
didn't
really
mention
email
marketing
.
You
didn't
really
mention
social
media
.
You
mentioned
going
out
and
networking
,
baking
cookies
,
doing
something
nice
and
sending
that
over
to
a
company
.
Those
are
the
things
that
are
going
to
make
you
stand
out
,
because
everybody
is
can
email
,
market
,
email
,
email
and
social
media
Anybody
can
do
that
.
But
those
little
things
that
you're
talking
about
they
take
a
time
investment
,
but
they
also
take
,
you
know
,
I
guess
a
personality
investment
is
maybe
the
phrase
I'm
looking
to
use
,
because
you're
right
,
when
you
go
to
some
of
these
networking
events
and
you're
not
a
social
person
,
it
can
feel
a
little
awkward
.
But
the
only
way
you're
going
to
get
better
at
it
is
if
you
keep
going
and
you
keep
practicing
and
you
keep
polishing
up
those
social
media
skills
,
and
not
in
a
digital
sense
,
but
in
the
personal
,
in-person
sense
.
Adam Wingfield
41:37
You
know
you
mentioned
something
about
polishing
and
one
of
the
other
things
that
people
are
not
doing
these
days
.
They're
not
developing
themselves
Right
.
So
a
lot
of
times
what
they
want
to
do
is
they'll
buy
a
truck
,
buy
a
trailer
and
they're
focusing
on
okay
,
hey
,
you
know
how
do
I
go
?
Get
on
this
low
board
,
I'm
going
to
do
whatever
.
But
they
don't
start
developing
those
things
within
themselves
that
they're
not
good
at
,
right
.
Adam Wingfield
41:58
If
you're
not
good
at
networking
or
you're
not
like
CEOs
have
to
talk
.
You
have
to
talk
regardless
of
your
CEO
,
or
one
truck
and
one
driver
,
or
a
CEO
of
30,000
.
You
have
to
have
that
leadership
development
.
You
have
to
constantly
develop
yourself
as
a
person
and
you
know
that
doesn't
necessarily
mean
that
all
I'm
going
to
do
is
look
at
YouTube
videos
of
motivational
speeches
.
That
means
sometimes
I
might
have
to
do
things
such
as
I
might
have
to
buy
a
book
,
or
I
might
have
to
enroll
in
a
college
course
on
communication
,
or
I
might
need
to
do
,
you
know
,
join
a
local
thing
that
will
help
me
speak
like
toastmasters
or
whatever
that
may
be
.
Adam Wingfield
42:35
You
have
to
continuously
develop
yourself
and
,
as
a
small
carrier
,
I
don't
care
if
you're
the
CEO
of
one
truck
or
the
CEO
of
50,000
.
I'm
going
to
come
at
you
with
the
same
exact
message
,
and
that
message
is
that
without
that
self
development
and
without
professional
development
and
progression
,
there's
going
to
always
be
a
byproduct
of
regression
and
that
regression
could
eventually
cause
the
demise
of
your
company
.
And
that
demise
of
your
company
can
be
the
demise
of
your
vision
and
I
don't
want
that
to
happen
.
But
we
have
got
to
take
the
entitlement
glasses
off
.
We've
got
to
take
the
entitlement
feeling
that
,
hey
,
just
because
I
have
this
and
just
because
everybody
is
saying
that
,
like
,
I'm
different
and
you
have
to
operate
with
that
level
of
intention
,
integrity
and
just
focus
.
Blythe Brumleve
43:20
Yeah
,
because
no
one
else
is
going
to
come
do
it
for
you
.
Adam Wingfield
43:22
Nobody's
going
to
save
you
.
Blythe Brumleve
43:23
Exactly
,
and
if
you
haven't
learned
that
lesson
over
the
last
few
years
,
you
know
you
better
learn
it
quick
.
So
if
you
were
to
get
your
CDL
today
,
what
would
you
do
differently
,
if
anything
,
versus
when
you
first
got
it
?
Adam Wingfield
43:39
If
I
was
going
to
get
my
CDL
today
.
What
I
doubt
is
,
man
,
that's
a
great
question
.
Well
,
I
think
for
me
.
I
think
that
for
me
,
knowing
what
I
know
now
,
the
only
thing
differently
that
I
would
possibly
have
done
that
I
didn't
do
the
first
time
is
that
I
was
going
to
get
my
CDL
today
.
The
first
time
is
really
,
really
just
appreciate
those
moments
that
I
was
out
there
and
appreciate
them
for
the
lessons
that
I
learned
.
You
know
it
is
a
lot
of
.
I
had
a
lot
of
mistakes
,
you
know
,
a
lot
of
heartaches
and
some
things
that
you
try
to
put
on
the
back
mirror
,
but
you
got
to
understand
it's
not
perfect
.
I
think
that
I
still
owe
my
CDL
to
this
day
is
probably
,
you
know
,
one
of
my
most
prized
possessions
,
because
you
know
I
look
at
that
license
every
single
day
and
I
look
at
,
you
know
,
the
things
that
I
got
as
a
result
of
it
.
You
know
and
I
don't
directly
attribute
my
success
solely
to
my
CDL
,
but
my
CDL
opened
up
a
door
for
me
and
once
I
got
into
that
door
,
I
was
able
to
grow
and
expand
and
a
lot
of
different
thoughts
.
Adam Wingfield
44:37
I
just
wanted
a
narrative
that
you
see
now
also
on
social
media
is
like
,
hey
,
everybody
,
go
get
your
CDL
and
make
a
lot
of
money
.
Well
,
I'm
just
going
to
tell
you
that
just
not
how
it
works
.
You
know
it's
hard
work
,
it's
sacrifice
.
You
know
it
takes
a
mental
toll
on
you
,
but
once
you
open
the
door
there's
a
lot
of
other
rooms
that
you
can
go
in
once
you
get
in
the
front
door
and
you
don't
have
to
just
stand
in
the
foyer
like
everybody
else
.
I'm
the
one
that
didn't
stand
in
the
foyer
.
I
was
like
,
hey
,
but
then
I
went
to
the
other
room
and
I'm
like
you
know
what
?
I
like
this
room
better
and
that
would
really
,
you
know
,
that's
really
kind
of
accelerating
me
.
But
you
know
that
,
go
back
on
the
question
.
I
just
felt
like
you
know
,
my
decision
when
I
got
my
CDL
was
was
was
partially
,
obviously
,
because
I
always
had
the
desire
and
commitment
to
want
to
be
involved
in
the
industry
.
Adam Wingfield
45:23
It
was
also
a
moment
for
me
because
I
lost
both
my
parents
and
I
was
struggling
with
depression
.
And
it
was
also
a
moment
for
me
to
help
focus
on
my
mental
health
and
I
tell
people
,
you
know
,
all
the
time
,
you
know
,
have
my
CDL
,
save
my
life
,
you
know
,
especially
when
you
think
about
the
,
you
know
,
just
the
thoughts
that
I
had
and
the
dark
thoughts
that
I
had
and
things
like
that
.
It
really
,
really
saved
my
life
.
It
really
allowed
me
to
see
the
world
for
what
I
,
what
I
saw
.
Adam Wingfield
45:47
It
allowed
me
to
really
grow
up
,
you
know
.
It
helped
me
grow
up
,
become
a
man
,
become
a
decision
maker
.
It
helped
me
make
believe
in
myself
,
you
know
,
and
believe
in
the
ability
to
accomplish
things
,
and
I
,
just
to
this
day
,
man
,
I
think
that
for
me
personally
,
it
was
having
my
CDL
change
my
life
,
you
know
,
allowed
me
to
,
you
know
,
live
the
life
that
I'm
going
to
be
able
to
live
,
and
I
just
,
I
just
I
couldn't
,
you
know
,
I
couldn't
imagine
my
life
without
it
.
I
just
couldn't
imagine
my
life
without
a
CDL
.
Blythe Brumleve
46:13
And
it's
led
to
some
incredible
opportunities
,
as
you
kind
of
hinted
to
or
towards
.
And
you
have
a
couple
of
things
.
So
you
have
the
trucking
meets
.
Train
your
train
.
You
will
course
which
train
.
Am
I
saying
that
right
?
Train
you
.
Adam Wingfield
46:25
Yeah
,
yeah
,
yeah
,
but
you
have
a
new
course
,
with
them
.
Blythe Brumleve
46:30
You
also
have
a
partnership
with
the
Carolina
Panthers
.
How
did
these
partnerships
come
about
and
what
do
you
hope
to
gain
from
them
?
Adam Wingfield
46:37
So
I
think
that
for
me
you
know
,
I
built
my
business
on
and
on
just
just
mutual
partnerships
.
Really
,
hey
life
,
what
are
you
doing
?
Okay
,
well
,
I
do
this
.
So
we
should
compliment
each
other
,
and
every
,
every
approach
that
I
have
is
very
strategic
.
I'm
always
consistently
looking
to
improve
the
value
that
we
provide
for
our
clients
to
strategic
partnerships
,
because
you
know
what
,
you
may
be
great
at
this
,
but
you
may
not
be
great
at
that
.
Let's
find
somebody
that's
great
at
that
.
With
the
end
goal
is
to
make
sure
that
the
customer
,
to
make
sure
that
the
client
,
gets
the
best
experience
possible
.
I
am
so
passionate
about
our
clients
and
I
want
every
client
that
touches
innovative
logistics
to
get
the
experience
that
they
will
get
nowhere
else
.
And
the
experience
that
I'm
looking
for
is
success
.
Right
,
I
want
my
clients
to
come
to
us
,
regardless
of
where
they're
,
at
what
stage
they're
at
,
and
get
success
.
And
so
you
know
when
we
got
.
You
know
when
the
Panthers
reached
out
to
us
and
the
other
partners
reached
out
to
us
,
you
know
the
alignment
and
the
vision
was
just
to
help
small
businesses
become
successful
.
Adam Wingfield
47:41
My
heart
is
always
small
business
focused
,
you
know
I
.
You
know
when
I
go
out
to
these
little
small
business
.
You
know
they
might
have
like
small
business
Saturdays
.
I'm
that
guy
that
walks
the
entire
room
and
buys
something
from
every
single
table
.
I
don't
care
if
they're
selling
this
,
I
don't
care
if
they're
selling
that
,
I'm
buying
it
because
I
love
small
business
.
And
you
know
,
when
you
support
small
business
,
you
support
somebody
that's
trying
to
take
care
of
their
kids
college
.
If
you're
supporting
somebody
who's
just
trying
to
believe
in
themselves
and
trying
to
put
you
know
something
out
there
that
they
had
a
deep
passion
and
desire
to
do
so
.
When
I
reached
out
and
I
focused
and
look
at
these
partnerships
,
I
appreciate
partnerships
that
have
small
business
at
the
top
of
mind
.
I
appreciate
partnerships
that
are
focusing
on
taking
care
of
a
small
guy
.
Adam Wingfield
48:26
This
industry
is
dominated
by
small
carriers
.
You
know
if
,
if
Schneider
,
jb
Hunt
,
swift
and
all
those
larger
entities
decided
today
,
you
know
we're
not
going
to
move
any
more
freight
today
we're
taking
the
day
off
.
You
know
who's
going
to
come
up
and
who's
going
to
step
up
to
the
plate
ABC
trucking
with
two
trucks
down
there
in
Ellary
,
south
Carolina
.
Those
are
the
companies
that's
going
to
stand
up
and
those
are
the
companies
that
move
our
country
forward
and
I
am
so
passionate
about
that
when
,
I
never
forget
,
I
was
in
a
truck
stop
and
,
you
know
,
early
on
in
my
career
and
I
just
remember
just
seeing
the
faces
of
folks
and
just
seeing
just
the
they're
on
their
back
.
Adam Wingfield
49:04
Then
we
didn't
have
,
you
know
,
the
low
boards
on
the
half
,
we
didn't
have
D18
truck
stop
and
all
that
good
stuff
.
We
didn't
have
that
.
They're
standing
on
there
at
the
Washington
dryer
and
they're
looking
at
the
screen
to
you
know
a
television
screen
with
a
load
and
a
broken
number
on
there
,
and
just
seeing
them
just
get
on
there
and
they're
rushing
to
the
telephone
and
trying
to
get
through
the
first
and
then
just
looking
at
their
face
.
You
know
,
hey
,
I
was
just
trying
to
get
home
this
spend
the
weekend
with
my
son
because
he's
got
his
final
baseball
game
and
and
just
seeing
their
faces
,
you
know
disappointment
,
discouragement
,
man
,
it
just
,
it
just
.
Adam Wingfield
49:38
I
just
love
people
and
I
love
to
see
people
successful
.
And
the
things
that
come
out
of
my
mouth
when
I'm
talking
about
this
business
.
I'm
not
going
to
tell
you
everything
that
you
want
to
hear
.
You're
going
to
hear
some
things
come
out
of
my
mouth
that
you're
not
going
to
agree
with
,
but
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
always
tell
you
is
.
I'm
always
going
to
tell
you
the
blunt
,
honest
truth
,
and
the
thing
is
is
that
I
want
people
to
be
successful
,
but
in
order
to
do
that
,
I
can't
want
it
more
than
the
next
person
.
So
our
partnerships
were
were
very
,
very
strategic
for
us
to
be
able
to
provide
the
level
of
service
and
provide
the
expertise
and
guidance
and
the
technology
that's
necessary
to
help
our
small
carriers
operate
like
large
carriers
,
and
that's
where
that's
where
that
came
in
.
Blythe Brumleve
50:16
And
so
it's
a
course
with
training
,
all
that
covers
a
lot
of
those
things
,
and
then
I
would
imagine
that
it's
kind
of
the
same
partnership
with
the
Carolina
Panthers
.
Adam Wingfield
50:25
So
with
the
training
we
have
so
many
different
courses
.
We
have
a
profitability
expert
course
is
for
coaches
,
like
dispatchers
or
you
know
,
you
got
brokers
that
are
looking
to
be
able
to
add
a
different
level
of
service
to
their
clients
.
We
have
a
startup
course
which
tells
people
from
A
to
Z
how
to
start
a
trucking
company
,
all
the
way
from
branding
,
all
the
way
from
,
you
know
,
low
going
,
the
whole
nine
again
covers
this
like
77
modules
in
that
particular
course
and
it's
not
even
and
I
like
calling
the
course
because
everybody
is
coursed
out
they're
freaking
out
about
courses
because
people
are
just
trying
to
get
rich
off
courses
,
and
I
get
it
,
but
it's
a
hybrid
educational
experience
and
when
I
think
about
it
,
of
course
is
you
know
,
we
tab
our
.
Our
experience
is
innovative
university
and
it's
like
a
college
course
.
You
have
to
submit
assignments
,
you
have
to
participate
in
discussion
threads
,
you
have
to
watch
videos
,
you
have
to
do
research
,
right
,
so
it's
real
courses
.
Adam Wingfield
51:17
It's
not
a
get
rich
course
,
it's
not
one
of
those
.
You
know
,
hey
,
I'm
just
going
to
.
You
know
,
put
six
modules
in
a
course
so
you
get
started
and
everybody
else
still
has
questions
afterwards
.
So
we
have
a
very
,
very
,
very
,
very
broad
range
of
different
courses
that
we
offer
in
it
and
with
the
and
with
the
Pantsys
partnership
is
really
just
that
small
business
partner
,
providing
us
with
that
platform
to
really
partner
.
With
that
,
we'll
be
able
to
have
visibility
and
people
to
see
hey
,
you
know
what
this
is
,
this
is
the
trucking
industry
.
But
since
the
trucking
industry
is
mainly
,
primarily
small
folks
,
these
are
the
guys
that
you
need
to
go
see
.
These
are
,
these
are
our
guys
right
here
.
These
are
who
we're
going
to
put
our
say
hey
,
you
know
what
you
guys
are
our
guys
,
and
I
think
that
that's
what
we're
looking
for
from
that
partnership
.
Blythe Brumleve
51:59
Very
well
said
,
and
it's
amazing
to
see
you
know
your
approach
,
going
from
a
worker
who's
in
the
trenches
to
educating
those
who
are
also
in
the
trenches
as
well
.
So
it
really
gives
you
that
firsthand
insight
that
you
know
for
a
lot
of
the
course
gurus
that
popped
up
and
you
know
,
on
TikTok
in
2020
,
you
know
a
lot
of
them
are
probably
I
mean
,
I
don't
want
to
guesstimate
you
know
what
they're
going
through
right
now
,
but
this
is
that
your
education
is
an
example
of
.
You
know
we're
going
to
take
care
,
we're
going
to
actually
show
you
from
experience
years
of
experience
of
what
to
do
and
,
most
importantly
,
what
not
to
do
,
in
order
to
avoid
these
,
a
lot
of
these
catastrophic
mistakes
.
So
,
okay
,
we've
talked
about
the
yellow
situation
,
we
talked
about
the
new
opportunities
that
you
guys
are
developing
that
are
already
here
,
but
what
about
some
other
,
I
guess
,
big
industry
issues
?
Is
there
anything
else
that
you
want
to
shine
a
light
on
?
Adam Wingfield
52:51
I
think
that
compliance
is
another
big
industry
issue
.
We're
seeing
a
lot
of
folks
,
you
know
,
really
just
try
to
fall
under
the
radar
when
it
comes
down
to
that
.
It's
never
been
a
small
issue
,
but
I
think
it's
.
You
see
it
more
and
more
now
and
you
know
,
when
you
think
about
fraud
and
freight
fraud
and
combating
freight
fraud
,
you
see
a
lot
of
brokers
that
are
very
,
very
gun
shy
when
it
comes
to
dealing
with
small
carriers
.
And
on
the
other
side
,
on
the
flip
side
,
we
see
small
carriers
not
doing
the
foundational
things
that
you
should
do
as
a
business
owner
to
ensure
you
establish
your
presence
as
a
small
business
and
you
give
them
that
comfort
that
,
hey
,
you
know
what
,
I'm
a
new
business
owner
,
but
you
can
trust
me
to
give
me
a
shot
.
I'm
not
going
to
double
broker
your
freight
.
So
I
think
that
one
of
the
biggest
things
that
we've
seen
is
a
lot
of
small
carriers
are
getting
told
no
.
You
know
more
than
ever
you
know
they're
getting
told
no
because
,
hey
,
you
don't
have
enough
experience
,
you
don't
have
enough
inspections
,
yeah
,
I
don't
trust
you
,
and
we're
seeing
that
,
you
know
that
quite
frequently
now
.
So
the
whole
narrative
and
the
whole
mindset
was
,
you
know
,
got
to
make
sure
that
we
avoid
the
way
stations
and
scale
,
scale
how
it's
closed
.
But
when
you're
avoiding
that
,
you're
avoiding
your
opportunity
to
be
out
and
be
able
to
showcase
that
you're
all
legitimate
and
I
think
that
that
has
become
a
more
and
more
an
issue
,
especially
for
the
small
guys
that
focus
so
much
on
the
spot
market
and
you
see
a
lot
of
folks
getting
stuck
in
places
.
You
see
a
lot
of
folks
that
are
not
being
able
to
work
with
.
I
remember
I
was
listening
to
my
team
explain
to
me
with
a
new
client
who
was
just
so
frustrated
he
was
like
six
months
in
the
business
and
he
now
he's
just
got
his
hands
in
the
air
.
We
were
providing
services
for
him
on
trying
to
help
get
them
moving
along
.
But
you
know
,
for
every
10
calls
that
he's
making
the
brokers
on
freight
,
you
know
he's
getting
told
eight
out
of
10
times
just
because
of
not
having
enough
inspections
.
So
it's
an
issue
.
Adam Wingfield
54:31
It's
an
issue
because
we're
finding
that
a
lot
of
three
PLs
are
limited
in
terms
of
their
,
their
their
outreach
for
mining
their
data
correctly
and
they're
just
given
,
you
know
,
the
first
right
or
refusal
in
their
opinion
is
no
and
it's
not
given
the
small
carriers
the
opportunity
,
which
I
can
understand
.
They're
trying
to
protect
themselves
and
trying
to
protect
their
freight
,
protect
the
customer's
freight
.
But
I
think
that
we
need
to
come
to
a
meeting
table
and
we
need
to
be
able
to
sit
down
with
these
folks
and
say
,
ok
,
well
,
if
this
is
not
it
,
then
what
could
we
do
?
What
could
we
?
What
message
can
we
get
out
to
the
small
carriers
that
we
can
say
,
hey
,
do
this
,
do
this
,
do
this
,
and
then
we
can
work
together
?
But
I
feel
like
there's
a
wedge
being
driven
and
my
messaging
this
year
is
really
to
start
to
hey
,
you
know
what
?
I'm
getting
ready
to
pull
this
wedge
out
and
we're
going
to
have
to
get
to
the
bargaining
table
and
sit
down
and
really
kind
of
talk
about
solutions
instead
of
continuously
focusing
on
a
problem
.
Blythe Brumleve
55:25
What
do
you
think
is
some
of
those
solutions
are
?
Adam Wingfield
55:27
I
think
that
just
looking
at
tech
went
in
2023
.
Why
are
we
sitting
there
saying
hey
?
Why
are
we
saying
hey
?
A
inspection
from
a
third
party
CVSA
officer
on
a
random
Tuesday
is
going
to
say
,
aha
,
that's
not
a
double
broker
.
We
have
to
use
technology
right
.
We
are
in
the
era
of
chat
,
gpt
,
bar
,
things
like
artificial
intelligence
and
like
real
artificial
intelligence
.
Adam Wingfield
55:52
But
again
,
this
industry
,
as
antiquated
it
may
be
,
we
just
started
using
ELDs
over
the
last
10
years
,
so
we
are
so
far
behind
the
tech
that
it
is
just
insane
.
We
have
got
to
get
ahead
of
things
.
We've
got
to
,
we've
got
to
be
next
step
up
.
We're
so
reliant
and
I
mean
like
we're
still
signing
BOLs
with
hand
,
with
your
hand
Like
what
are
we
doing
?
I
can
super
Rolex
through
through
the
,
you
know
,
through
the
mail
,
and
I
have
to
you
know
,
have
to
sign
for
it
.
Adam Wingfield
56:19
But
these
are
the
things
that
I'm
struggling
with
us
understanding
.
We've
got
the
smartest
and
brightest
people
that
we
ever
had
in
trucking
Right
.
We've
never
had
the
brilliance
in
this
area
that
we
have
because
of
the
,
the
,
the
ability
to
use
the
tools
that
we
have
,
to
,
the
access
to
information
.
We
have
the
most
brilliant
people
in
technology
ever
,
but
we
operating
just
like
we
operated
20
years
ago
.
We
might
as
well
just
shut
the
load
boys
now
and
put
them
over
the
washing
machine
and
stop
.
Adam Wingfield
56:49
We
were
struggling
with
adapting
technology
and
we're
throwing
things
at
the
wall
hoping
it
sticks
,
and
I'm
tired
of
seeing
that
.
Let's
sit
down
together
and
hear
both
sides
.
And
when
I
was
at
the
mats
I
remember
there
was
a
listening
session
and
in
a
listening
session
if
you
can
hear
the
passion
that
was
in
the
voices
of
those
on
our
operators
out
there
.
But
you
know
what
was
not
present
there
.
The
FMCSA
was
there
,
but
brokers
weren't
there
.
I
would
love
to
be
able
to
take
that
same
approach
and
go
to
a
broker
conference
and
bring
50
,
100
on
our
operators
and
let's
sit
in
one
room
and
let's
talk
about
it
then
.
And
I
challenge
folks
to
make
it
happen
.
Blythe Brumleve
57:30
What
about
on
the
broker
side
of
things
?
If
they
want
to
find
those
reliable
carriers
that
they
also
won't
get
,
I
guess
,
fall
victim
to
fraud
or
double
brokering
,
what
are
some
ways
that
they
can
find
those
really
good
carriers
that
just
want
a
shot
?
Is
there
any
hope
for
them
right
now
,
or
is
it
more
like
upper
management
that's
bringing
the
rules
?
Adam Wingfield
57:51
It's
more
upper
management
.
You
got
a
lot
of
brokers
that
just
,
hey
,
this
is
what
our
compliance
team
says
,
we're
not
going
to
deal
with
this
.
Just
give
you
an
example
here
in
Kansas
City
I've
got
a
couple
of
clients
with
large
fleets
and
one
of
them
has
a
significant
size
fleet
and
I
met
with
him
yesterday
when
I
landed
and
the
nicest
him
and
his
team
,
the
nicest
group
of
people
you
ever
come
across
Face
to
face
met
with
them
.
They're
hungry
,
they
want
to
make
things
happen
.
But
then
when
you
look
on
from
a
broker
perspective
and
how
they
view
that
carrier
,
it's
just
I'm
not
going
to
disclose
on
the
sources
that
they're
rated
upon
,
but
you
can
see
that
the
wedge
is
there
,
that
personality
that
they're
saying
,
hey
,
you
know
what
?
There's
an
exception
to
the
rule
.
Hey
,
let
me
escalate
you
to
someone
else
on
the
team
and
let's
give
you
another
part
of
the
vetting
process
.
You
know
,
it's
almost
like
they
don't
have
the
opportunity
.
Carriers
don't
have
the
opportunity
to
prove
themselves
like
they
did
before
.
How
to
heck
am
I
,
as
a
carrier
,
going
to
prove
myself
to
you
as
a
broker
when
you
just
use
a
system
?
Okay
,
well
,
the
system
says
that
I'm
this
.
Okay
,
well
,
let
me
prove
to
you
why
you
should
be
able
to
work
with
me
.
Let
me
give
you
what
do
you
need
,
what
do
I
need
to
do
?
And
a
lot
of
times
they
don't
have
answers
,
they
can't
tell
you
.
They're
like
,
well
,
just
get
some
inspections
.
Well
,
that's
not
.
Let
me
tell
you
something
Get
an
inspection
.
Number
one
that's
not
part
of
the
FMCSA
requirements
.
You
know
when
I'm
talking
about
the
CVSA
inspection
,
right
?
But
number
two
,
it
is
100%
randomized
.
So
you
may
,
you
may
not
.
Adam Wingfield
59:32
If
I'm
running
a
lane
and
I
remember
for
a
long
time
between
South
Carolina
and
Georgia
,
there
was
tons
of
construction
and
the
two
ways
,
you
know
,
there
were
several
way
stations
that
were
along
that
construction
line
that
were
temporary
closed
just
as
a
part
of
it
.
So
if
I'm
running
that
for
a
couple
of
years
and
I
got
two
years
of
experience
in
it
in
that
particular
lane
,
and
I
reach
out
to
Blythe
and
Blythe's
like
,
yeah
,
I
can't
use
you
,
you
don't
have
enough
inspections
.
You
got
to
prove
to
me
that
you're
worthy
.
Well
,
blythe
,
I've
been
running
a
dedicated
lane
between
here
and
Georgia
and
the
scale
house
has
been
closed
,
how
am
I
supposed
to
get
a
CVSA
inspection
?
Well
,
I
don't
know
,
just
tough
,
deal
with
it
.
Adam Wingfield
1:00:05
That's
exactly
the
message
that's
out
there
right
now
.
That
is
the
message
We've
got
to
get
better
at
it
,
we've
got
to
figure
out
a
better
solution
,
and
that
solution
is
we've
got
to
provide
them
a
platform
to
prove
themselves
.
Give
me
a
proven
platform
,
show
me
a
proven
platform
.
And
then
I'll
say
you
know
what
,
I'll
take
that
to
the
small
carriers
and
we're
going
to
make
sure
that
,
hey
,
you
know
what
?
We're
going
to
get
the
business
form
the
right
way
Now
.
We're
going
to
make
the
proven
platform
done
the
right
way
Now
.
Okay
,
now
let's
sit
down
and
let's
talk
about
it
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:00:30
It
almost
feels
like
there
,
with
all
the
data
that
is
in
this
industry
.
I
don't
know
why
that's
not
able
to
be
verified
,
that
you
know
a
certain
MC
number
has
run
this
lane
for
this
many
years
.
Is
that
just
not
available
or
the
broker's
just
not
looking
for
it
?
Adam Wingfield
1:00:46
There's
technology
for
that
.
If
you
plug
into
an
ELD
API
now
from
a
carrier
and
that
carries
running
this
,
you
know
motive
ELDs
for
the
last
two
years
.
You
know
exactly
what
that
truck
has
been
going
over
the
last
two
years
.
Pull
a
log
history
,
pull
it
.
If
the
data
,
you
can
get
all
that
information
.
But
it's
used
not
to
.
Either
they
choose
not
to
or
they
just
don't
have
someone
in
their
ear
saying
hey
,
look
,
you
say
he's
not
valid
here
.
Let
me
show
you
the
if
the
data
.
Let
me
see
you
give
you
his
last
four
quarter
if
the
bills
will
show
you
how
hard
he's
been
running
over
the
last
four
quarters
.
Now
,
now
tell
me
that
we
don't
.
You
know
that's
.
That's
where
I
say
that
there's
more
conversation
that
needs
to
be
had
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:01:21
Is
there
almost
maybe
like
a
digital
resume
for
some
of
these
carriers
,
kind
of
,
you
know
,
take
ownership
of
this
issue
and
almost
make
like
an
online
resume
?
Maybe
,
you
know
,
using
their
website
or
something
like
that
,
where
they
can
list
all
of
their
you
know
partnerships
or
accomplishments
?
Or
you
know
,
here
is
literally
like
my
ELD
data
.
You
can
download
it
right
here
.
Is
there
anything
that
they
can
do
to
take
sort
of
ownership
in
their
own
hands
?
Adam Wingfield
1:01:45
Right
now
,
the
only
thing
you
really
can
do
like
you
said
,
you
spoke
about
creating
that
brand
appearance
right
,
getting
that
website
up
,
making
sure
you
don't
have
a
Gmail
address
,
make
sure
you
have
your
own
private
domain
.
You
spend
money
on
a
website
,
you
spend
money
in
your
presence
,
you
got
social
media
information
showing
that
you're
legitimate
,
you
know
,
and
then
getting
getting
that
part
out
the
way
.
But
as
far
as
digital
tools
,
there's
no
digital
tools
that
are
carrier
friendly
.
That's
going
to
say
,
hey
,
you
know
what
if
they
come
with
this
digital
tool
here
?
Guys
,
they're
not
.
They're
not
a
double
broker
.
They
have
legitimate
trucks
,
they
are
actually
running
trucks
.
And
so
I
just
see
so
many
.
Adam Wingfield
1:02:16
I
see
technology
not
carrier
friendly
.
I
see
a
lot
of
and
I
don't
want
to
say
broker
friendly
,
because
that's
not
fair
to
the
brokers
either
but
I
just
don't
see
a
lot
of
carrier
facing
data
that
says
,
hey
,
you
know
what
if
Adam's
trucking
?
Because
you
know
the
crazy
thing
about
the
Check
this
Out
Blife
,
if
I
started
a
trucking
company
,
if
I
chose
to
say
I'm
going
to
start
Blythe's
Trucking
today
,
me
,
adam
,
23
years
of
experience
in
this
industry
,
driven
more
miles
in
reverse
than
some
people
that
pull
forward
,
have
seen
success
at
every
level
.
If
I
started
a
trucking
company
today
called
Blythe's
Trucking
and
I
go
out
and
get
my
MC
number
and
I
started
MC
,
you
know
I'm
going
to
get
told
no
,
that
I
need
to
get
more
experience
.
That's
how
the
software
and
that's
how
their
technology
today
is
pointed
.
It
is
not
.
It
is
not
mined
to
where
it
provides
exceptions
and
there
is
no
Prove
it
platform
that's
out
there
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:03:13
It
just
feels
like
the
deck
is
stacked
against
carriers
and
what
can
you
do
except
for
just
take
ownership
of
your
own
financials
,
take
ownership
of
your
own
brand
,
especially
in
a
digital
atmosphere
,
and
it
kind
of
sounds
like
you
know
,
get
out
once
you
do
those
things
,
get
out
there
and
start
networking
and
making
those
connections
yourself
and
just
hope
that
they
don't
have
you
know
sort
of
a
compliance
department
that's
going
to
,
you
know
,
bring
the
hammer
down
on
carriers
that
don't
meet
the
necessary
you
know
sort
of
book
requirements
,
for
is
that
a
safe
assumption
?
Adam Wingfield
1:03:42
That's
a
safe
,
absolutely
absolutely
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:03:46
Alright
,
switching
gears
a
little
bit
to
the
final
part
of
the
show
because
I
have
a
few
rapid-fire
questions
for
you
.
You
kind
of
hinted
at
it
earlier
.
You
know
Twitter
and
threads
.
Do
you
have
a
favorite
social
media
platform
that
you
like
to
use
to
get
your
message
out
?
Adam Wingfield
1:04:00
You
know
I
like
Twitter
.
I
do
.
I
like
Twitter
.
Or
X
,
yeah
,
x
.
I
like
it
because
you
know
I
like
that
platform
.
That's
not
where
my
primary
following
is
at
.
You
know
.
My
primary
following
obviously
is
on
Instagram
and
I've
got
a
pretty
significant
following
on
LinkedIn
.
I
love
X
because
I'm
able
to
connect
with
people
from
just
so
many
different
industries
on
a
more
relaxed
level
,
versus
like
I'm
on
LinkedIn
and
I'm
like
this
and
I'm
sitting
like
this
and
I'm
using
proper
words
and
I'm
making
sure
I'm
doing
spell
check
and
all
that
stuff
,
but
on
Twitter
I
can
just
let
it
fly
and
there's
no
judgment
zone
.
Adam Wingfield
1:04:37
So
I
like
Twitter
X
,
whatever
you
call
it
,
but
I
like
that
platform
a
lot
.
You
know
it
provides
me
the
opportunity
to
do
those
things
and
really
get
a
really
true
like
full
scope
of
my
day
.
Like
you
know
,
I
might
comment
on
,
you
know
,
a
catch
that
you
know
that
was
thrown
from
Bryce
Young
,
or
I
might
be
able
to
.
You
know
,
look
at
who
the
hornets
just
signed
and
make
a
comment
on
the
mellow
and
then
at
the
same
time
,
I'm
talking
free
.
So
I
can
,
I
can
talk
,
I
can
be
free
on
that
platform
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:05:06
Yeah
,
for
sure
.
I
definitely
think
.
When
threads
launched
,
I
was
like
I
don't
know
if
the
Instagram
community
is
ready
for
the
kind
of
Twitter
energy
that's
about
to
be
brought
here
.
Yeah
,
I
don't
think
they
were
ready
for
it
.
Adam Wingfield
1:05:17
It's
just
such
a
you
know
kind
of
like
,
you
know
,
squirrel
type
energy
that
you
know
that
you
get
on
Twitter
.
Twitter
is
absolutely
,
it's
a
squirrel
environment
100%
All
right
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:05:27
What
platforms
or
digital
media
strategies
should
more
freight
companies
be
taking
advantage
of
?
Adam Wingfield
1:05:32
LinkedIn
,
100%
,
100%
LinkedIn
,
you'll
find
the
most
decision
makers
,
the
highest
of
the
highs
,
the
biggest
voice
of
the
biggest
LinkedIn
period
.
Like
,
if
you
really
want
to
be
heard
,
like
I
said
,
you
got
to
sit
up
,
you
got
to
button
your
shirt
,
you
know
,
you
got
to
make
sure
you
come
correct
you
.
But
but
you
know
,
100%
,
I
don't
see
enough
owner
operators
on
LinkedIn
.
I
don't
see
enough
.
I
tell
you
there's
one
that
I
follow
,
dan
.
You
know
.
I
know
you
probably
follow
him
as
well
,
but
like
he
got
it
,
he's
got
it
right
.
Adam Wingfield
1:06:01
You
know
him
and
Ingrid
,
I
love
following
their
content
on
LinkedIn
because
they're
so
,
so
,
just
,
charismatic
,
they're
so
unique
,
they're
so
intentional
and
they
just
and
they
do
such
a
good
job
of
getting
out
there
.
And
you
got
so
many
people
.
You
know
whether
it
be
3PLs
,
whether
it
be
,
you
know
,
I
saw
one
time
,
I
think
,
one
of
them
it
was
a
broker
that
was
,
like
you
know
,
made
a
comment
on
like
Dan's
post
and
he
was
like
,
oh
,
I'm
sorry
,
I
can't
do
it
because
I've
already
got
my
dedicated
customers
and
you
know
,
it's
just
,
it's
crazy
that
so
many
others
don't
do
the
same
thing
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:06:37
I
know
it
with
Dan
in
particular
.
I
think
he
he's
not
a
podcast
listener
.
We've
tried
to
get
him
to
become
a
podcast
listener
but
he's
not
going
to
do
it
,
so
maybe
we
can
convince
him
with
this
conversation
.
All
right
,
one
of
the
next
to
the
last
question
Favorite
software
tool
you
use
every
day
that
you
can't
live
without
.
Adam Wingfield
1:06:56
Slack
,
slack
.
Well
,
I
sort
of
got
to
,
can't
live
without
Slack
,
man
,
you
know
,
shout
out
to
Slack
,
Shout
out
to
Slack
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:07:05
What
do
you
love
about
Slack
?
Adam Wingfield
1:07:06
Everything
.
The
fact
that
,
like
,
I
can
communicate
with
my
team
,
I
can
communicate
with
clients
,
I
can
do
video
shots
,
I
can
I
can
integrate
everything
with
it
my
emails
you're
dependent
on
the
title
of
the
email
.
It
just
makes
everything
one
alert
and
one
notification
and
it
allows
me
to
make
things
so
much
easier
for
myself
.
But
let's
start
like
from
a
communication
tool
.
It
allows
me
to
communicate
better
.
It
allows
me
to
communicate
and
touch
my
clients
.
It
allows
me
to
communicate
,
touch
with
my
team
,
be
able
to
provide
direction
and
things
like
that
man
,
but
like
like
100%
,
couldn't
live
without
Slack
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:07:37
All
right
.
And
then
,
finally
,
I
can't
let
you
go
without
talking
a
little
bit
of
AI
.
How
are
you
using
?
You
know
you
mentioned
chat
.
You
be
tea
earlier
,
I
think
.
I
you
know
I've
seen
a
couple
of
tweets
about
you
using
Claude
,
which
I
really
love
.
How
are
you
using
different
AI
tools
?
Adam Wingfield
1:07:52
So
we're
using
it
,
just
you
know
,
just
really
now
we're
in
a
testing
phase
of
being
able
to
use
it
to
make
the
client
experience
better
.
We
use
it
to
help
the
efficiency
and
in
operations
and
we're
using
it
in
bots
,
so
we're
allowing
bots
to
do
certain
work
for
us
that
really
kind
of
streamlines
workflows
,
make
things
more
efficient
,
let
the
decision
makers
focus
on
making
decisions
.
That
are
focusing
on
tasks
.
So
there
are
a
couple
of
things
.
You
know
I'm
here
at
the
recruiting
conference
and
I'm
not
going
to
tell
them
,
but
I've
got
a
presentation
tomorrow
that
I'm
a
surprise
and
wonder
how
to
really
put
chat
,
gft
and
the
old
recruiting
experience
and
be
able
to
write
better
driver
ads
,
being
able
to
communicate
better
with
with
,
with
potential
driver
recruits
,
being
able
to
actually
recruit
drivers
because
it's
like
email
marketing
right
,
you
got
to
,
you
got
to
nurture
them
,
you
got
to
recruit
them
and
and
I'm
going
to
show
them
on
how
to
use
automations
and
things
like
that
,
on
how
to
do
so
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:08:42
That's
awesome
.
Is
there
going
to
be
anywhere
where
we
can
catch
that
presentation
,
maybe
after
the
fact
?
Adam Wingfield
1:08:46
So
I'm
going
to
have
myself
on
in
a
tripod
,
post
it
up
in
the
back
of
that
room
and
I'm
going
to
definitely
make
sure
I'm
going
to
live
stream
it
or
either
either
either
that
I'm
going
to
throw
it
on
YouTube
once
I
get
done
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:08:57
Heck
yeah
,
we'll
be
sure
to
link
to
it
in
the
comments
and
in
the
show
notes
,
just
to
make
sure
that
that
people
are
aware
that
they
can
watch
that
kind
of
content
.
So
I
guess
last
question
,
anything
that
you
feel
was
important
to
cover
that
we
haven't
talked
about
in
this
conversation
.
Adam Wingfield
1:09:14
You
know
when
.
I
think
you
know
and
I
said
this
,
you
know
in
my
network
before
I
think
that
you
do
such
a
great
job
of
organic
conversations
and
I
don't
know
how
you
do
it
,
being
able
to
right
,
ask
the
right
questions
through
the
entire
time
.
You're
in
an
amazing
interview
and
I'm
not
just
saying
that
,
I
just
want
the
public
to
really
,
really
,
really
,
really
see
that
.
You
know
,
we
can
sit
here
and
talk
all
day
right
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:09:32
We
can
talk
about
.
You
know
we
can
talk
all
day
and
you
know
when
I'm
,
you
know
they
say
that
you
know
when
you
love
what
you
do
,
you
know
it's
not
work
.
Adam Wingfield
1:09:38
Or
you
know
when
you
have
a
job
,
you
know
you
can
talk
all
day
.
You
know
when
you
love
what
you
do
,
you
know
it's
not
work
.
Or
you
know
when
you're
having
fun
.
Time
flies
and
it's
like
that
in
this
conversation
.
I
really
want
people
to
go
back
and
listen
to
,
versus
me
saying
what
did
we
miss
Once
.
Adam Wingfield
1:09:53
You
go
back
and
hit
rewind
on
this
.
Go
back
and
listen
to
some
of
those
points
,
especially
my
own
operators
and
small
carriers
are
looking
to
get
off
the
low
board
and
really
secure
and
dedicated
freight
.
Don't
skip
over
that
part
.
Go
back
,
listen
to
that
.
Go
back
and
listen
to
my
brokers
.
Go
back
and
listen
to
the
part
where
we
talked
about
let's
get
down
to
the
table
,
let's
do
a
better
job
of
vet
and
carriers
.
Let's
come
up
with
more
strategies
.
Let's
let's
let's
let's
take
the
gloves
off
for
a
second
.
Let's
sit
down
and
let's
have
conversations
,
open
our
eyes
,
open
our
ears
and
look
at
it
from
a
different
lens
and
perspective
.
I
want
you
to
go
back
and
listen
to
the
fact
that
I've
got
23
years
of
experience
in
this
industry
.
If
I
got
23
years
experience
in
this
industry
and
I
started
trucking
company
.
Tomorrow
you're
going
to
tell
me
no
,
I
can't
haul
your
freight
,
there's
a
problem
,
and
you
need
to
come
up
with
a
solution
so
that
way
we
can
do
a
better
job
together
at
it
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:10:35
And
so
when
you
have
the
unique
perspective
of
seeing
transportation
and
shipping
on
on
both
sides
,
so
you
kind
of
have
that
that
real
world
experience
of
being
,
of
knowing
where
the
gaps
are
with
the
way
that
drivers
are
being
treated
in
this
country
and
at
shippers
and
warehouses
all
over
the
country
.
What
,
I
guess
,
lessons
did
you
take
from
those
days
of
working
on
the
on
the
receiving
end
of
things
,
into
your
,
your
role
today
?
Mike Lombard
1:11:03
Well
,
it's
funny
because
when
I
,
when
I
talked
to
those
guys
,
I
asked
them
how
their
jobs
were
,
because
I
would
speak
to
local
drivers
and
guys
who
came
from
over
the
road
and
I
would
always
ask
them
about
how
it
is
.
And
it's
funny
,
even
back
then
they
would
bring
up
issues
such
as
parking
around
the
area
and
I
,
I
never
,
would
never
think
about
it
,
especially
for
the
guys
who
drive
the
day
cabs
,
because
they
wouldn't
talk
about
it
as
much
.
But
guys
who
came
in
who
did
have
sleepers
and
stuff
,
they
would
always
mention
about
how
,
oh
,
coming
up
here
is
really
tough
and
so
like
that
,
and
I'd
be
like
,
oh
really
,
you
know
,
and
I
wouldn't
know
much
about
it
.
And
it's
funny
,
I
never
even
thought
about
these
things
until
you
know
I
,
you
know
,
I'm
asked
to
remember
when
I
,
when
I
worked
at
these
places
,
talking
,
talking
with
these
guys
,
but
mainly
like
what
people
loved
about
the
going
to
the
warehouse
that
I
was
at
was
they
were
in
and
out
,
like
whenever
they
came
to
a
warehouse
like
ours
,
which
is
like
more
of
a
smaller
one
it
wasn't
like
a
big
shipping
and
receiving
places
,
is
like
a
plumbing
and
heating
wholesaler
,
like
if
drivers
had
to
come
there
.
They
know
that
they're
just
bumping
the
dock
,
a
couple
of
things
going
in
or
a
couple
of
things
coming
out
,
because
we
would
be
replenished
by
these
day
cabs
regional
drivers
too
out
of
a
distribution
center
in
New
Hampshire
that
would
come
down
to
Connecticut
.
Mike Lombard
1:12:17
And
this
guy
I
mean
he
loved
his
job
because
he
would
.
Just
,
he
came
and
saw
us
twice
a
week
but
every
like
when
he
like
his
type
of
job
was
,
he
was
when
he
showed
up
to
work
he
was
already
loaded
,
he
would
leave
,
drive
down
to
Nehaven
,
unload
,
and
he'd
be
unloaded
in
30
minutes
and
then
he's
gone
and
then
he'd
get
back
home
and
he's
home
early
and
that
that
was
his
shift
.
So
,
like
I
got
to
see
actually
how
you
know
a
good
distribution
center
would
run
their
trucks
from
that
company
.
So
,
especially
on
the
local
side
of
things
,
when
it
comes
to
scheduling
time
off
,
you
know
his
availability
to
find
parking
,
what
he
was
making
money
,
wise
,
upward
mobility
.
So
,
and
I
got
to
see
that
from
the
receiving
end
before
I
even
got
in
the
truck
myself-
and
so
what
?
Blythe Brumleve
1:13:01
what
was
,
I
guess
the
.
So
you
moved
to
Texas
and
you
decide
to
,
you
know
,
become
a
trucker
.
What
was
that
process
look
and
look
like
for
you
?
Did
you
go
to
CDL
school
,
did
you
?
What
does
that
process
look
like
?
Mike Lombard
1:13:13
Yeah
,
so
to
get
my
CDL
,
well
,
I
had
to
,
you
know
,
go
through
all
the
you
know
,
rudimentary
processes
of
like
changing
my
license
over
to
the
state
of
Texas
and
stuff
.
But
what
I
did
was
I
looked
for
,
I
looked
at
companies
who
I
would
obviously
like
pay
for
your
CDL
,
because
I
didn't
know
,
I
had
no
idea
about
getting
a
CDL
.
In
hindsight
,
if
I
had
,
if
I
had
,
if
I
did
know
,
and
if
I
can
go
back
,
I
probably
would
have
maybe
taken
out
a
student
loan
myself
and
picked
a
CDL
school
to
go
to
,
knowing
full
well
that
,
depending
on
whatever
jobs
you
get
into
,
a
lot
of
companies
will
offer
tuition
reimbursement
,
which
is
actually
just
probably
still
taxpayer
dollars
.
But
what
I
did
was
I
,
you
know
,
had
looked
online
for
companies
and
I
had
found
I
actually
had
to
find
a
,
and
I
don't
I
don't
mind
saying
this
because
I'm
open
and
honest
I
was
looking
for
companies
that
specifically
didn't
hair
test
,
because
I
probably
still
had
some
remnants
of
marijuana
in
my
hair
from
the
time
of
when
I
wanted
to
get
my
CDL
.
I
had
,
you
know
,
marijuana
could
stay
in
your
hair
for
,
I
don't
know
,
up
to
three
months
and
I
had
stopped
.
You
know
,
I
had
stopped
smoking
weed
for
a
couple
months
and
I
was
like
,
well
,
I
didn't
want
to
risk
it
.
So
I
found
companies
that
didn't
hair
test
and
and
I
know
this
is
just
got
to
be
on
the
podcast
people
need
to
know
,
because
this
is
important
,
like
the
fact
that
there
are
hair
tests
for
these
companies
.
Mike Lombard
1:14:29
I
mean
,
to
test
for
lifestyle
is
just
something
I
don't
agree
with
.
You're
not
testing
habit
like
hair
tester
,
testing
lifestyle
,
and
it's
just
.
I
think
it's
a
huge
invasion
of
privacy
,
especially
as
states
of
legalized
things
.
Medically
,
you
know
more
than
half
the
country
,
but
that's
a
different
conversation
.
So
I
found
Pam
transport
.
Mike Lombard
1:14:45
They
pay
for
your
CDL
school
and
so
I
went
through
them
,
went
through
their
application
process
,
which
was
,
you
know
,
done
online
.
I
,
you
know
,
I
qualified
for
them
.
I
didn't
have
any
like
tickets
or
DUIs
and
they
paid
for
me
to
go
to
ATDS
,
which
was
in
Colleen
,
texas
,
so
it
was
about
45
minutes
away
from
where
I
was
living
and
I
went
to
that
school
and
there
was
a
couple
other
people
who
are
there
,
who
are
also
going
to
work
for
Pam
that
I
was
there
with
,
but
there
was
also
people
at
that
school
there's
three
people
I
was
in
CDL
school
with
who
were
sent
there
by
Texas
workforce
unemployment
.
So
these
people
were
essentially
told
that
if
they
didn't
go
to
CDL
school
they
would
have
,
they
would
lose
their
,
that
they
would
lose
their
benefits
.
So
it's
almost
like
the
state
of
Texas
,
the
state
,
the
government
,
forced
them
to
become
truck
drivers
and
I
kind
of
found
that
a
little
weird
,
you
know
,
and
and
it's
interesting
.
Mike Lombard
1:15:36
And
it's
crazy
the
road
we've
gone
to
.
You
know
so
much
of
the
learned
sense
since
meeting
guys
like
Gordon
having
conversations
on
.
You
know
some
of
my
show
about
,
like
you
know
,
hiring
practice
and
stuff
.
But
yeah
,
so
this
guy
sent
their
unemployment
.
But
you
know
,
I
got
my
CDL
didn't
get
an
automatic
restriction
,
by
the
way
,
I
can
drive
a
10
speed
manual
for
the
drivers
listening
,
I'm
not
a
phony
and
I
started
working
with
Pam
and
it
was
you
know
.
Mike Lombard
1:16:01
This
is
the
CDL
milling
industrial
complex
.
This
is
a
company
where
you're
100%
a
number
.
They
don't
.
You
know
I
would
talk
to
my
driver
manager
on
the
phone
and
then
I
would
have
a
question
and
I
would
call
back
in
five
minutes
and
they
wouldn't
know
who
I
was
.
They
would
need
my
driver
number
.
They
get
me
and
I'll
never
forget
that
.
There's
nothing
.
There's
probably
nothing
more
that'll
make
you
feel
more
like
alone
,
like
when
you're
like
in
the
middle
of
nowhere
,
when
you
know
,
when
you're
in
Montebello
,
california
,
and
you
have
a
question
about
a
certain
trailer
number
or
say
you
do
have
an
issue
with
the
trailer
because
whenever
you
come
to
trailers
,
like
if
you're
dropping
hooks
they
could
be
damaged
,
and
you
talk
to
them
on
the
phone
,
get
off
the
phone
and
they'd
be
like
,
ah
yeah
,
I
forgot
I
had
this
question
.
And
then
you
call
them
back
and
you're
like
,
hey
,
so
,
and
so
it's
me
,
mike
Lombard
again
.
And
they'd
be
like
what's
your
driver
number
?
And
it's
like
we
,
and
it's
just
not
five
minutes
have
passed
before
we
spoke
,
and
it's
like
you
don't
know
my
name
.
And
that's
what
it
was
always
like
and
they
would
always
shuffle
you
around
,
like
I
would
switch
driver
managers
like
I
don't
almost
like
quote
kind
of
regularly
.
Mike Lombard
1:17:04
Like
at
one
point
in
time
when
I
was
at
Pam
,
they
put
me
on
this
dedicated
run
that
went
from
.
That
was
somewhere
in
Ohio
and
one
between
two
cities
Huber
Heights
and
I
forget
the
other
city
and
it
was
like
this
run
for
I
was
moving
like
Coca
Cola
and
I
was
doing
it
,
and
I
was
told
by
my
driver
manager
hey
,
you're
going
to
help
on
this
lane
for
a
couple
days
,
and
I
was
like
,
okay
,
and
I
did
it
for
probably
a
week
and
a
half
.
And
at
one
point
I
was
like
,
hey
,
you
know
what's
the
deal
here
,
when
am
I
going
to
be
taken
off
this
?
And
like
I
was
actually
assigned
a
new
driver
manager
,
wasn't
even
told
that
I
was
and
they
were
like
oh
,
you're
just
on
this
lane
now
.
I
was
like
,
well
,
this
lane
would
be
great
if
I
lived
in
Ohio
.
I
was
like
,
but
I'm
out
here
,
like
what
are
you
guys
trying
to
do
?
Like
I
want
to
be
,
I'm
making
less
money
because
that
was
restricted
on
the
miles
.
So
,
like
my
miles
got
cut
because
they
put
me
on
this
lane
that
needed
more
trucks
to
run
.
And
it's
like
Well
,
my
mileage
was
reduced
because
it
was
a
dedicated
lane
.
I
was
like
,
why
didn't
nobody
even
have
the
conversation
with
me
?
They
weren't
like
hey
,
we've
got
this
lane
opening
up
.
You'll
get
X
amount
of
miles
per
day
,
per
week
.
Like
I
wasn't
just
,
I
wasn't
told
that
at
all
.
They
just
threw
me
on
that
lane
and
we're
like
hey
,
you're
gonna
like
that
was
it
?
It
wasn't
,
until
I
was
like
hey
,
why
am
I
still
here
?
You
know
that
I
,
that
I'm
on
this
and
it's
just
like
that
.
So
that's
seeing
like
these
,
the
how
these
mega
carriers
work
as
a
whole
.
Mike Lombard
1:18:23
I
eventually
got
myself
on
this
Walmart
dedicated
run
,
which
was
which
wasn't
bad
,
and
the
reason
why
it
wasn't
bad
is
because
I
was
,
in
theory
,
working
for
Walmart
at
that
point
.
I
was
just
on
their
rules
.
Like
I
didn't
talk
to
my
driver
manager
at
all
,
I
just
dealt
with
Walmart
.
Like
when
I
showed
up
to
work
,
it
was
the
closest
thing
you
can
get
to
being
a
driver
for
Walmart
.
I
would
just
show
up
to
the
DC
check
in
.
They'd
be
like
hey
,
you're
going
to
grab
trailer
1234
over
here
,
it's
going
to
go
down
to
this
store
in
over
in
comfort
Texas
and
then
you're
going
to
grab
an
empty
and
you're
going
to
go
to
New
Danny
and
then
then
you'll
get
your
next
trip
from
there
.
And
it
was
awesome
because
I
was
working
,
because
at
that
point
I
was
on
Walmart
how
Walmart
runs
their
supply
chain
and
not
how
Pam
and
the
mega
carriers
do
.
Mike Lombard
1:19:03
But
from
there
I
ended
up
meeting
a
kid
who
worked
for
a
small
carrier
out
of
Northwest
Arkansas
,
r&r
solutions
phenomenal
company
.
They're
actually
not
just
a
trucking
company
.
They
have
their
own
warehousing
.
They
have
their
own
warehousing
.
They
do
a
lot
of
it
stuff
.
They
almost
have
trucking
almost
as
like
a
just
another
part
of
their
business
to
serve
customers
in
a
way
,
because
they'll
do
it
in
a
IT
disposition
.
So
they
had
like
25
trucks
,
25
,
30
trucks
small
,
you
know
,
small
carrier
they
.
Mike Lombard
1:19:29
This
is
when
I
saw
the
good
side
of
how
a
company
can
treat
somebody
.
For
a
company
driver
they
would
.
They
got
me
home
whenever
I
wanted
.
I
went
to
multiple
weddings
back
in
the
northeast
.
I
would
go
visit
friends
in
Phoenix
,
like
things
would
come
up
.
It
was
like
it
was
very
great
.
Laid
back
,
they
,
you
know
they
.
They
never
bothered
you
.
Essentially
,
you
know
you
can
run
the
miles
you
wanted
as
long
as
it
worked
.
If
you
lived
in
Florida
or
something
like
that
,
it
would
be
harder
for
them
.
But
me
,
living
in
Texas
,
it
definitely
matters
when
you
live
definitely
has
a
factor
of
you
know
what
company
you
work
for
.
But
they
were
great
.
And
then
can't
you
know
?
Mike Lombard
1:20:05
It
kind
of
came
to
the
decision
you
know
where
I
was
.
I
kind
of
I
wanted
to
get
at
this
point
.
I
felt
confident
that
I
think
I
can
get
into
business
and
I
have
a
business
partner
good
friend
of
mine
is
my
accountant
and
we
you
know
,
at
the
beginning
of
2022
,
made
the
decision
hey
,
let's
do
this
.
And
so
we
started
looking
at
buying
a
truck
and
it
got
really
hectic
but
we
got
the
truck
.
But
what
was
awesome
about
getting
the
truck
is
,
you
know
,
I
did
a
lot
of
research
get
my
own
authority
versus
leasing
on
.
And
I
did
a
lot
but
I
kind
of
saw
.
I
saw
what
the
lower
risk
was
at
that
point
and
the
company
I
was
working
for
as
a
company
driver
.
When
I
told
them
I
was
buying
a
truck
,
this
is
how
great
they
were
they
were
like
,
hey
,
we
used
to
hire
owner
operators
,
we'd
love
to
help
you
get
started
.
And
so
I
leased
on
with
them
at
first
and
I
used
a
book
.
You
know
I
was
on
every
load
board
.
They
let
me
use
every
load
board
for
free
.
And
you
know
they
let
me
use
a
53
foot
drive
in
for
tree
.
We
had
a
good
contract
set
up
80
20
minimal
expenses
,
and
that's
where
I
kind
of
learned
the
game
.
Mike Lombard
1:21:02
And
then
,
towards
the
end
of
2022
,
saw
the
writing
on
the
wall
with
the
spot
market
.
Spot
market
was
really
teetering
Like
there
.
There
wasn't
really
a
holiday
peak
,
especially
for
drive
and
stuff
,
and
so
I
kind
of
need
to
make
changes
,
like
I
definitely
can't
stay
doing
van
.
I
had
a
guy
over
at
Warren
Transport
,
a
friend
of
mine
.
I
talked
with
them
about
wanting
to
run
flatbed
and
they
had
.
You
know
I
lobbied
my
case
for
it
.
You
know
I
had
unloaded
and
loaded
pipe
trucks
at
a
previous
job
I
said
,
hey
,
I
can
do
this
.
You
know
,
give
me
the
secure
training
they
brought
me
on
.
And
that's
what
I've
been
doing
since
.
I've
been
with
Warren
for
the
past
six
months
moving
agriculture
like
John
Deere
,
tractors
,
oversize
loads
,
combines
,
conveyor
belts
,
like
all
sorts
of
stuff
.
So
that's
kind
of
been
the
the
trucking
journey
,
you
know
,
in
a
whole
.
Sorry
if
that
was
a
little
little
winded
,
but
that's
,
that's
where
that's
what's
got
me
to
know
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:21:48
No
,
you
hit
on
a
bunch
of
things
that
I'd
like
to
kind
of
expand
on
a
little
more
.
So
,
first
of
all
,
the
driver
manager
.
For
folks
who
may
not
be
familiar
,
your
driver
manager
is
what
you're
essentially
the
.
From
what
I
understand
,
it's
the
first
person
that
you're
almost
assigned
to
as
soon
as
you
complete
CDL
school
.
They're
they're
the
ones
responsible
for
you
know
,
making
sure
you're
taking
care
of
and
you
have
everything
that
you
need
,
and
they're
really
like
your
point
of
contact
.
Your
,
your
closest
,
I
guess
,
maybe
like
a
work
friend
in
the
office
is
your
driver
manager
.
Is
that
accurate
?
Mike Lombard
1:22:20
Oh
,
yeah
,
like
with
Pamela
,
you're
not
going
to
talk
to
anybody
else
.
You
,
they
do
have
.
There's
this
one
guy
who
I
think
is
their
boss
,
who
will
call
you
like
monthly
and
I
think
that's
like
probably
part
of
their
,
it's
probably
part
of
their
employee
retention
.
I
had
imagined
they
do
,
because
he
would
call
like
once
a
month
and
just
be
like
hey
,
are
you
happy
,
like
stuff
like
that
,
and
they
,
like
they'll
do
check
.
You
know
,
I
remember
they
would
do
checkups
.
But
yeah
,
like
any
questions
you
have
when
you
send
a
Qualcomm
message
or
when
you
send
an
e-log
,
yeah
,
they're
who
you
talk
to
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:22:47
And
so
for
switching
up
a
manager
,
on
you
not
telling
you
,
is
that
a
case
of
that
driver
manager
probably
just
you
know
moved
on
to
another
job
,
or
they
were
just
assigned
to
somebody
else
and
you
had
no
idea
.
Mike Lombard
1:22:58
Oh
,
they
just
the
personnel
staff
would
change
so
much
.
At
least
that
I
saw
,
because
I
remember
towards
the
end
of
my
time
at
Pram
Transport
my
original
driver
manager
ended
up
,
yeah
,
getting
a
promotion
,
and
she
worked
,
I
think
,
on
the
maintenance
side
of
things
.
Now
,
so
if
you
had
a
breakdown
because
I
remember
I
had
something
,
I
had
a
DPF
sensor
go
on
me
and
I
remember
like
having
like
calling
a
breakdown
or
somebody
,
and
it
was
her
who
picked
up
the
phone
and
I
recognized
her
.
She
didn't
recognize
me
and
it's
like
so
they'll
have
personnel
that
it
will
move
all
the
time
,
and
then
all
of
a
sudden
you'll
get
a
call
and
be
like
hey
,
so-and-so
is
you
know
over
here
now
I'm
your
driver
manager
and
it
just
hits
you
because
you
know
you'll
have
home
time
coming
up
or
you'll
be
doing
XYZ
,
and
it's
just
so
hard
to
you
know
,
it's
hard
to
coordinate
.
Mike Lombard
1:23:41
It's
like
I
said
you
can
the
vibe
I
got
and
the
vibe
you
get
is
oh
,
I'm
a
number
here
Like
they
look
at
I
imagine
they're
looking
at
a
board
of
you
know
and
they
have
trucks
you
know
truck
numbers
and
they
just
kind
of
move
them
around
to
different
columns
,
Like
here's
Joe
,
christina
,
so
it's
whatever
.
You
know
,
they'll
have
a
list
of
names
of
DMs
and
they
just
like
move
the
trucks
over
to
name
after
name
,
based
on
the
demand
of
where
they
need
trucks
to
go
,
and
that
,
you
know
.
I
just
it's
like
as
if
they
don't
realize
,
like
oh
,
there's
a
human
operator
in
that
truck
,
that's
like
the
vibe
,
like
I
immediately
got
,
and
there's
a
lot
of
people
,
there's
drivers
who
will
probably
share
that
sentiment
,
because
,
especially
at
these
bigger
companies
you
know
,
the
,
the
Warners
,
the
Schneiders
like
it's
just
,
these
companies
are
just
,
you
know
,
these
companies
that
run
in
the
thousands
of
units
.
That's
just
how
they
,
it's
how
they
operate
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:24:26
Have
they
always
been
like
that
,
with
the
way
that
you
know
,
treating
drivers
as
a
number
per
se
?
Have
they
always
been
like
that
?
Or
is
this
just
the
nature
of
you
know
?
Maybe
the
industry
growing
really
fast
and
they
can't
keep
up
?
What
are
your
theories
behind
why
they
treat
drivers
as
a
number
?
Mike Lombard
1:24:42
What's
crazy
is
is
I
don't
know
,
you
know
,
basically
you
know
just
off
my
experience
,
I
don't
know
if
that's
the
way
it's
always
has
been
,
because
you
know
you'll
talk
to
older
guys
who
say
it
used
to
be
different
.
But
in
reality
what's
crazy
is
is
pre
pre-ELD
mandate
and
some
,
and
even
pre
like
cell
phones
,
so
to
speak
.
So
even
if
we
go
back
early
2000s
,
1990s
,
who
like
maybe
they
were
less
treat
you
like
a
number
because
you
didn't
talk
to
them
as
much
,
now
there's
all
this
surveillance
technology
on
top
of
you
where
you
feel
is
where
they
,
where
they
have
all
this
access
to
all
of
your
data
,
your
location
,
where
you
are
,
your
hours
,
where
you're
going
,
they
have
all
this
access
to
your
data
.
Yet
they
still
there's
still
this
disconnect
of
treating
you
like
a
number
,
or
back
in
the
day
they
barely
would
contact
you
and
guys
,
you
know
the
turnover
was
still
lower
and
it
was
.
You
know
it
was
probably
people
describe
it
as
a
little
bit
better
.
Mike Lombard
1:25:35
So
it's
like
I'm
curious
too
if
it
was
always
like
that
.
But
I
think
the
data
is
in
the
turnover
rates
at
some
of
these
,
at
some
of
these
companies
.
You
know
we're
looking
at
these
major
companies
with
turnover
into
the
,
you
know
,
into
the
triple
digits
at
some
point
.
So
was
it
always
.
Was
it
like
that
10
,
15
,
20
years
ago
?
I'm
not
sure
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:25:56
And
that
kind
of
leads
me
into
my
next
question
.
Because
the
upper
echelon
of
driving
jobs
from
what
you
know
anecdotally
,
from
what
I
see
on
TikTok
and
you
know
other
social
media
platforms
,
that
Walmart
is
really
the
upper
echelon
as
far
as
like
everything
that
you
could
want
out
of
a
truck
driving
job
and
that
is
the
ultimate
goal
is
to
drive
for
Walmart
.
Is
that
a
safe
assumption
?
Mike Lombard
1:26:19
I'd
say
it's
definitely
one
of
the
safer
assumptions
.
Now
,
even
on
Twitter
,
I
mean
,
we've
been
engaging
in
conversation
with
more
Walmart
drivers
the
Walmart
drivers
and
a
lot
of
this
information
has
gotten
out
there
and
,
like
how
you
said
,
walmart
being
this
upper
echelon
of
what
a
company
should
be
,
it's
all
over
.
Tiktok
has
become
the
place
for
drivers
and
Walmart
drivers
have
been
coming
on
there
and
telling
people
hey
,
this
is
what
we're
getting
,
walmart's
getting
PTO
,
this
is
our
schedule
,
how
it
is
?
It's
regional
.
You
know
,
it's
crazy
to
think
that
of
all
companies
,
it's
Walmart
,
because
Walmart's
technically
not
a
trucking
company
.
When
you
think
,
about
it
.
Mike Lombard
1:26:57
Walmart
is
in
the
retail
business
and
they're
the
ones
who
are
out
there
treating
the
drivers
with
the
most
respect
and
respecting
their
home
time
,
giving
them
PTO
the
benefits
the
better
pay
,
all
that
sort
of
stuff
I'd
say
personally
,
like
if
it
comes
to
unless
you
love
flatbed
,
unless
you
love
a
different
type
of
niche
freight
,
like
if
you're
just
into
trucking
because
you
like
to
truck
,
walmart's
definitely
become
the
job
to
be
.
They
become
the
model
of
how
a
carrier
should
be
.
I
said
it
on
a
previous
show
that
essentially
they
became
exactly
what
should
have
happened
to
carriers
post
deregulation
,
but
instead
it
has
become
this
spiraling
race
to
the
bottom
that
it
turned
into
this
just
race
to
the
bottom
as
opposed
to
okay
,
let's
maintain
the
standard
of
what
the
job
was
pre
deregulation
and
Walmart's
always
had
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:27:59
Walmart
always
had
,
I
guess
,
the
best
perception
or
the
best
reputation
when
it
comes
to
treating
drivers
.
Or
is
this
something
that
they've
grown
into
or
evolved
into
?
Mike Lombard
1:28:10
I
think
they
definitely
evolved
into
it
because
pre
Walmart
shining
,
it
was
the
union
outfits
that
were
the
better
jobs
because
they
came
with
.
They
came
with
regular
pay
raises
,
they
came
with
seniority
,
they
came
with
better
scheduling
the
pay
,
the
benefits
like
the
health
insurance
.
It
was
before
Walmart
.
It
was
the
unions
who
were
really
the
better
employers
to
work
for
,
especially
back
in
the
60s
and
70s
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:28:39
And
I'm
not
sure
if
they
answered
to
this
or
not
,
but
I
would
be
curious
to
know
how
long
Walmart
has
had
company
drivers
or
if
they've
used
through
PLs
in
the
past
,
like
some
major
other
retailers
.
So
I
would
be
curious
to
know
how
long
that
they've
had
company
drivers
versus
just
using
like
a
through
PL
.
Mike Lombard
1:28:55
I
wanna
say
it's
been
like
I
said
I
can't
speak
on
this
exactly
because
I
think
Sam
Walton
himself
was
a
driver
.
Oh
wow
,
like
he
was
in
a
truck
and
like
I
think
that
that's
where
the
respect
for
drivers
comes
from
,
cause
I
remember
when
I
was
pulling
Walmart's
out
of
Seymour
,
indiana
,
they
had
a
big
picture
on
a
wall
of
Sam
Walton
outside
one
of
their
trucks
,
like
,
and
it
was
like
this
kind
of
like
a
motivating
picture
on
the
wall
they
had
about
basically
how
crucial
the
job
of
being
a
trucker
was
.
Like
you
know
,
it
was
like
a
motivational
picture
of
like
how
awesome
you
are
to
drive
for
Walmart
and
like
it
had
a
picture
of
Sam
Walton
and
had
it
like
some
quote
he
said
about
how
the
business
doesn't
run
without
the
trucks
and
about
how
they're
the
most
integral
part
.
So
it's
like
I
think
they've
had
company
drivers
essentially
since
the
get
go
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:29:47
Yeah
,
I
just
did
a
quick
Google
search
and
this
is
you
know
about
his
pickup
truck
,
but
it
definitely
has
the
impression
that
he
has
always
cared
about
that
.
You
know
Walmart
founder
Sam
Walton
has
always
cared
about
you
know
the
drivers
and
said
he
continued
to
drive
an
old
,
beat
up
.
You
know
F-150
,
despite
being
able
to
afford
any
vehicle
he
wanted
,
quoting
.
Or
he
was
quoted
as
saying
what
am
I
supposed
to
haul
my
dogs
around
in
a
Rolls
Royce
when
it
comes
to
his
vintage
truck
?
And
then
there's
other
you
know
memorabilia
about
.
You
know
his
leadership
and
you
know
the
Walmart
museum
,
with
drivers
being
a
central
focus
.
So
that's
really
cool
to
hear
the
ins
and
outs
,
because
I
would
have
assumed
that
a
big
company
like
Walmart
would
have
succumbed
to
the
other
things
that
you
know
.
Other
big
carriers
,
some
of
the
mega
carriers
,
as
you
said
you
know
have
affected
them
,
that
Walmart
would
be
affected
by
that
as
well
,
but
it
seems
like
they
found
a
really
nice
niche
for
themselves
and
just
treating
drivers
with
respect
.
Who
would
have
thought
in
that
regard
?
Blythe Brumleve
1:30:52
So
I
guess
my
next
question
is
because
we
kind
of
talked
about
a
little
bit
about
,
you
know
,
recruiting
,
because
recruiting
and
retention
seemed
to
be
the
hot
button
issues
and
maybe
well
,
maybe
not
hot
button
issues
,
but
recruiting
drivers
in
particular
.
You
know
the
infamous
we
have
a
driver
shortage
that
has
never
,
ever
really
existed
.
That's
promoted
by
associations
like
the
ATA
.
But
really
it
should
be
more
of
a
stronger
focus
on
retention
,
because
it
sounds
like
the
company
that
you
worked
for
for
a
while
.
If
they
would
have
treated
you
as
a
person
instead
of
just
a
number
,
then
you
would
have
stayed
with
them
,
thus
making
their
CDL
investment
and
hiring
investment
in
you
worthwhile
.
Would
you
say
that
retention
is
something
that
more
companies
should
be
focused
on
?
Mike Lombard
1:31:41
Like
.
Undoubtedly
it's
a
retention
issue
.
Yeah
,
and
I'm
glad
you
mentioned
the
ATA
and
their
false
narrative
and
their
agenda
of
pushing
this
driver
shortage
narrative
something
they've
done
for
over
a
decade
and
it's
so
funny
and
the
data
proves
time
and
time
again
that
it's
false
.
Yet
you
know
there's
all
this
stuff
on
the
.
You
know
there's
so
much
fact
checking
and
you
know
independent
fact
checkers
out
there
who
love
to
call
out
misinformation
and
I'm
curious
why
it's
not
on
every
tweet
of
every
news
article
that
continues
to
.
You
know
be
able
to
get
away
with
posting
about
this
80,000
.
So
you
know
,
I'd
love
to
know
where
the
fact
checkers
are
on
that
,
because
it's
been
proven
time
and
time
again
that
it's
just
not
true
.
This
is
all
related
to
retention
,
but
you
know
the
fact
checking
stuff
.
That's
a
whole
other
argument
.
I'll
have
to
take
it
up
with
Elon
on
Twitter
,
but
it
is
retention
and
you
could
see
this
in
the
rest
of
the
working
world
.
You
could
see
this
in
.
Mike Lombard
1:32:35
You
know
the
tech
industry
is
really
big
on
their
recruiting
and
retention
and
what
they
offer
for
employee
benefits
,
what
they
offer
on
the
job
.
You
know
the
things
they
offer
.
You
know
you
see
this
at
even
the
company
I
worked
at
the
wholesale
I
worked
at
.
They
offer
things
like
profit
sharing
that
you
get
,
and
that
you
know
,
vested
in
things
into
your
retirement
fund
.
There's
so
many
.
You
know
other
industries
everywhere
.
You
know
whether
it's
working
in
.
Like
you
know
the
tech
industry
is
big
on
it
because
they're
all
about
recruiting
top
talent
.
Like
if
you
want
top
talent
,
you
need
to
be
offering
something
at
your
business
,
at
your
company
,
or
else
why
aren't
they
gonna
go
work
for
the
next
guy
?
And
we're
seeing
this
happen
now
in
the
industry
.
Except
what's
really
happening
is
what
these
companies
are
offering
drivers
is
so
bad
that
a
lot
of
them
quit
the
industry
altogether
and
there's
your
shortage
.
Your
shortage
comes
from
people
just
quitting
the
industry
altogether
because
it's
not
worth
it
,
because
the
hours
worked
and
what
they're
putting
in
isn't
worth
not
being
home
.
The
pay
you
know
the
disrespect
,
being
treated
like
a
number
I
mean
even
down
to
you
know
and
like
even
sometimes
it's
not
so
much
the
pay
but
the
benefits
,
like
being
away
from
home
.
We're
at
this
point
now
.
We're
being
away
for
long
periods
of
time
.
Mike Lombard
1:33:47
Look
for
some
people
.
I
get
it
.
Some
people
want
that
life
and
to
choose
it
.
That's
great
.
This
isn't
for
them
.
Mike Lombard
1:33:52
We're
talking
about
the
standard
,
we
have
to
look
at
things
on
a
macro
scale
.
Like
,
I
know
drivers
who
live
on
the
road
.
There's
married
couples
who
do
that
,
where
they'll
just
,
you
know
,
kind
of
do
the
RV
life
,
where
they'll
buy
a
truck
,
husband
and
wife
run
as
a
team
.
You
know
they
live
,
they
live
on
the
road
.
There's
people
who
do
that
,
but
that's
not
what's
sustaining
our
economy
,
that's
not
the
you
know
,
that's
not
how
freight
is
moving
at
all
times
.
Like
,
yes
,
there's
a
small
10%
of
people
who
will
live
on
the
road
,
but
for
the
most
part
as
a
career
,
these
people
are
out
for
three
weeks
at
a
time
.
Mike Lombard
1:34:22
You
know
,
when
it
comes
to
retention
,
like
I
said
,
most
major
carriers
they
don't
offer
PTO
until
after
you've
worked
there
for
a
year
.
Mind
you
,
working
there
requires
you
to
be
out
two
to
four
weeks
at
a
time
.
So
you're
not
home
on
weekends
,
you're
not
like
you
have
.
You
know
there's
so
many
qualities
of
life
you
don't
get
.
You
know
you
have
to
live
on
the
road
.
Essentially
,
their
home
time
is
one
week
out
for
one
day
home
.
So
it's
like
so
if
you
want
four
days
at
home
,
you
essentially
stay
out
for
four
weeks
and
then
so
for
doing
that
for
staying
out
,
possibly
four
to
.
Mike Lombard
1:34:52
You
know
most
people
like
when
I
was
with
PAM
I
would
stay
out
four
to
six
weeks
at
a
clip
.
So
you
do
that
.
You
don't
even
get
any
PTO
until
after
a
year
and
then
the
PTO
you
do
get
is
one
week
and
it's
not
a
week
worth
of
what
you'd
get
and
drive
it
,
because
you
can
hammer
3000
miles
in
a
week
even
in
a
government
truck
.
At
PAM
transport
I've
gotten
3000
mile
weeks
before
.
You
know
if
you
run
out
your
clock
every
day
and
do
a
reset
,
so
they're
not
paying
you
what
you
can
do
for
a
week
.
They
adjusted
off
this
40
hour
scale
,
paid
at
like
$15
an
hour
or
something
or
$18
an
hour
.
So
they
pay
you
only
for
40
hours
.
So
they're
not
even
paying
you
for
actually
a
full
week
worked
and
this
is
the
standard
across
so
many
of
these
companies
.
Mike Lombard
1:35:32
And
you
know
they
just
you
know
,
and
during
this
whole
time
you're
working
where
you're
at
.
You
know
you're
at
these
shippers
and
receivers
,
or
sometimes
two
to
six
hours
.
You're
not
paid
for
that
you
know
.
So
that
cuts
into
your
miles
.
You're
be
ridden
to
the
electronic
log
.
You're
be
ridden
to
the
surveillance
technology
like
new
driver
facing
cameras
.
Mike Lombard
1:35:50
You
have
all
this
stuff
that's
put
on
the
driver
and
you
know
they
wonder
.
You
know
how
come
nobody's
staying
and
they
want
you
know
why
are
they
leaving
?
Well
,
you
know
I
could
tell
you
for
what
you
know
companies
like
.
If
you
want
top
talent
,
you
need
to
offer
,
you
know
,
top
benefits
and
pay
.
And
that
and
what's
happening
is
,
since
the
top
talent
or
you're
not
retaining
talent
at
trucking
companies
,
that's
gonna
.
That
all
has
a
cost
that
rolls
out
to
your
safety
.
So
you're
gonna
have
less
safe
drivers
on
the
road
because
they're
all
gonna
be
newer
,
and
this
is
just
a
cost
that
rolls
onto
the
consumer
,
because
that
level
of
turnover
eventually
makes
its
way
to
the
grocery
store
shelf
,
whether
people
like
to
admit
it
or
not
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:36:31
And
so
when
we
talk
about
you
know
all
of
the
I
guess
you
know
the
mass
surveillance
that's
going
on
with
drivers
in
particular
.
Is
there
any
kind
of
data
and
reporting
for
,
like
you
know
,
warehouse
,
like
unloading
time
,
loading
time
or
is
there
any
kind
of
,
I
guess
,
come
to
Jesus
moment
for
those
kind
of
employees
that
because
I
would
imagine
that
if
they
increased
their
efficiency
of
loading
and
unloading
trucks
,
that
they
would
get
more
product
in
,
they
would
become
more
efficient
,
the
store
would
become
more
efficient
Like
why
aren't
those
same
I
guess
,
surveillance
technologies
being
placed
on
those
workers
as
well
?
And
I'm
not
advocating
for
any
kind
of
surveillance
technology
,
but
if
they're
gonna
use
data
in
one
way
,
I'm
just
curious
if
you
have
any
insight
as
to
why
they're
not
using
that
data
and
surveillance
and
other
ways
where
it
could
be
more
impactful
.
Mike Lombard
1:37:20
Well
,
it
has
to
do
with
the
stakeholders
in
that
transaction
.
So
the
carriers
already
been
paid
for
the
job
done
and
the
shippers
and
receivers
have
all
been
paid
.
The
person
in
the
middle
,
the
driver
,
is
the
only
one
who
suffers
,
so
that
one
driver
who
had
to
wait
for
six
hours
and
the
macro
scale
.
To
these
people
it
doesn't
really
matter
,
because
the
goods
are
being
sold
and
the
services
are
being
transported
one
way
or
another
and
that
transaction's
already
been
made
.
So
there's
no
incentive
in
place
anywhere
to
incentivize
the
shippers
and
receivers
to
either
load
or
unload
faster
,
because
it
doesn't
matter
either
way
.
And
so
,
when
it
comes
to
so
do
I
think
that
implementing
some
sort
of
timers
or
ELD
on
shippers
and
receivers
is
the
answer
?
But
we're
at
no
,
I
don't
think
so
.
I
mean
,
if
companies
do
I'm
sure
there
are
companies
that
probably
.
I
mean
I
know
when
I
worked
for
that
wholesaler
,
that
distribution
center
in
New
Hampshire
,
the
VP
of
operations
up
at
the
DC
,
if
trucks
were
at
doors
for
like
longer
than
45
minutes
,
he
would
absolutely
blow
his
head
off
.
He'd
be
like
,
why
is
this
door
still
?
Why
is
this
truck
still
at
a
door
?
Like
he
would
hate
it
.
Mike Lombard
1:38:28
I'm
sure
that
there
are
warehouses
that
do
probably
have
timers
on
that
stuff
and
they
time
like
how
long
trucks
are
at
docks
,
and
they
probably
have
that
data
.
What
they
do
with
it
,
I
don't
know
.
It's
definitely
not
in
the
norm
,
but
we're
coming
to
the
point
now
where
,
hey
,
the
government
may
need
to
actually
step
in
,
and
I
know
people
balk
at
that
and
the
libertarians
of
the
world
you
know
oh
,
why
do
that
Keep
the
government
out
of
it
?
Well
,
the
government's
got
into
it
.
The
government's
in
it
either
way
.
They're
already
here
and
what
it's
doing
is
it's
causing
mass
turnover
,
it's
causing
safety
issues
.
It's
completely
unfair
to
the
largest
stakeholder
in
the
industry
,
the
driver
.
Mike Lombard
1:39:04
And
so
if
you
do
something
like
pass
legislation
that's
currently
floating
around
the
house
,
the
guaranteeing
overtime
for
truckers
act
,
if
you
have
to
pay
these
drivers
for
their
hours
worked
and
hours
sitting
at
these
receivers
,
that's
the
incentive
for
shippers
and
receivers
to
then
go
okay
,
we
can't
have
these
trucks
sitting
,
or
else
they're
gonna
wanna
renegotiate
rates
,
cause
the
carriers
then
gonna
go
,
hey
,
you
guys
are
gonna
need
to
pay
us
more
money
so
we
can
pay
these
drivers
more
,
and
then
that's
gonna
get
.
The
shippers
and
receivers
are
gonna
be
like
,
okay
,
hey
,
what
if
we
actually
no
matter
what
.
If
they're
not
out
of
here
in
an
hour
,
then
we'll
figure
it
out
.
That's
the
incentive
they
need
.
They
need
something
.
Mike Lombard
1:39:48
It's
gotten
to
the
point
to
where
they
need
an
actual
kick
in
the
butt
from
the
government
to
do
it
,
and
all
it
really
involves
is
just
paying
people
for
their
time
worked
,
which
happens
in
every
other
industry
.
If
you
went
to
any
other
people
,
consider
trucking
blue
collar
.
If
you
try
to
tell
a
pipe
fitter
,
a
welder
,
a
plumber
or
somebody
that
they're
gonna
have
to
be
at
a
house
or
they're
gonna
be
there
at
a
certain
time
and
they're
not
gonna
get
paid
for
it
but
they
have
to
be
there
,
they'll
absolutely
throw
.
They'll
be
ripping
mad
about
that
,
but
for
drivers-
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:40:19
You're
gonna
get
charged
for
that
somehow
.
Mike Lombard
1:40:20
Yeah
,
they're
gonna
charge
it
for
you
.
They're
100%
gonna
charge
it
for
you
If
you
need
a
road
call
,
if
you
have
a
truck
breakdown
and
I
had
to
get
a
road
call
once
because
I
had
a
coolant
hose
go
on
me
,
that
road
call
.
You
start
paying
for
that
road
call
for
that
mechanic
to
come
to
you
.
The
second
from
when
that
truck
leaves
this
house
,
like
that's
when
the
timer
starts
,
so
that's
for
a
road
call
mechanic
.
How
come
that
doesn't
happen
If
I'm
at
a
ship
or
a
receiver
,
I'm
not
saying
the
second
,
I
bump
the
talk
like
,
oh
,
you
have
to
pay
me
from
that
starting
minute
.
That's
just
unrealistic
.
But
if
,
once
we're
getting
at
the
90
minute
mark
and
things
aren't
happening
,
if
you're
at
a
place
,
like
I
said
,
I've
been
at
grocery
DCs
Elizabeth
,
new
Jersey
.
I
was
there
for
six
hours
.
And
I
was
there
for
six
hours
because
they
unloaded
me
in
45
minutes
.
But
then
they
needed
to
count
all
the
stuff
.
Mike Lombard
1:41:08
That
transaction
is
between
the
shipper
and
the
receiver
.
You
loaded
that
material
,
they
sealed
it
themselves
.
They
didn't
want
me
to
seal
it
so
that
I
carried
the
freight
.
The
driver
carries
it
.
There's
no
.
If
there's
a
discrepancy
in
the
quantity
has
nothing
to
do
with
the
motor
carrier
,
that's
between
the
shipper
and
receiver
.
You
don't
just
get
to
freely
keep
a
driver
there
and
waste
my
time
and
I
can't
build
that
back
.
Even
as
a
known
operator
,
I
can't
build
that
back
.
Yeah
,
you
could
shake
the
broker
down
for
detention
if
he's
gonna
give
it
to
you
,
but
that's
a
losing
battle
.
Like
I've
tried
to
shake
brokers
down
for
detention
time
and
time
again
,
they
don't
give
a
crap
.
Mike Lombard
1:41:42
I
had
this
happen
with
a
guy
with
Null
and
Transport
Group
.
This
guy
I
blew
his
phone
up
for
two
weeks
in
this
guy
and
then
he
had
the
nerve
once
when
I
asked
him
for
another
load
to
,
I
threw
out
a
rate
and
he
dropped
it
down
$500
cheaper
.
I
said
,
hey
,
man
,
don't
you
think
you
owe
me
for
the
six
hours
I
had
to
spend
at
this
HEB
DC
?
And
he
was
like
,
oh
,
that's
my
bet
on
that
.
Sorry
,
man
can't
go
above
this
.
And
it's
like
what
are
we
doing
here
?
You
know
it's
,
you
know
that's
from
the
owner
operator
side
and
I
know
I'm
kind
of
going
off
.
But
you
know
,
back
to
the
original
point
circling
the
back
.
The
incentive
now
is
at
this
point
of
yeah
,
we
probably
need
to
do
something
that's
going
to
help
drivers
out
and
I
think
you'll
incentivize
shippers
and
receivers
to
speed
things
up
,
because
it
would
force
.
It's
the
rising
tide
that
lives
all
boats
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:42:29
I
was
going
to
say
why
are
they
taking
you
know
so
long
six
,
eight
,
you
know
sometimes
10
hours
to
get
you
unloaded
?
Is
it
just
you
know
the
inefficiencies
within
their
operation
,
or
they're
trying
to
just
you
know
?
Is
it
just
taking
them
that
long
to
count
merchandise
,
or
are
there
other
reasons
that
factor
in
too
?
Mike Lombard
1:42:46
Sometimes
it's
certainly
the
counting
of
merchandise
,
because
that's
not
every
single
load
,
but
I
don't
know
what
takes
so
long
.
Because
,
even
like
,
because
when
you
go
to
these
places
,
especially
since
COVID
,
you
know
you're
not
allowed
in
,
the
check-in
process
is
very
,
very
separated
.
Like
you
know
,
I
encourage
anybody
like
,
just
go
on
TikTok
and
search
,
like
truck
driver
waiting
,
and
you'll
find
guys
who
will
be
like
and
they'll
it'll
just
be
like
a
clip
of
videos
like
one
hour
,
two
hour
,
three
hour
,
and
they
won't
even
know
.
And
you
know
,
some
of
these
DCs
are
ones
like
like
Walmart
and
Amazon
.
You
have
to
drop
the
trailer
at
a
door
,
unhooked
from
it
,
go
to
a
staged
parking
area
and
then
they'll
call
you
the
Walmart
DC
in
Bentonville
,
arkansas
,
the
headquarters
,
the
belly
of
the
beast
.
Mike Lombard
1:43:32
I
went
to
deliver
there
once
and
this
wasn't
when
I
was
pulling
Walmart's
.
Like
I
said
,
being
a
Walmart
driver
,
good
,
delivering
to
a
Walmart
DC
.
You
know
,
not
so
much
.
There's
a
sign
right
on
the
door
and
big
caps
or
not
,
on
the
door
,
on
the
glass
window
,
it
says
we
have
four
hours
from
when
you
give
us
your
paperwork
to
unload
.
You
Do
not
come
back
.
You
know
,
within
that
time
,
like
just
off
the
rip
set
like
that's
the
standard
,
set
in
a
tone
.
Yeah
,
they
set
the
tone
with
a
piece
of
paper
,
prints
it
out
with
black
,
bold
letters
.
We
have
four
hours
from
when
you
give
us
your
paperwork
.
Mike Lombard
1:44:06
So
it's
like
,
what
power
do
I
have
at
that
point
?
Like
,
how
do
you
negotiate
that
?
What
can
I
do
to
get
out
of
there
quicker
At
this
point
,
like
there's
nothing
anybody
can
do
to
reduce
that
time
.
It's
one
of
those
times
where
nope
,
maybe
the
government
needs
to
intervene
.
Be
like
hey
,
you
wanna
keep
these
people
waiting
?
Well
,
it's
affecting
the
turnover
in
the
industry
and
you
know
it's
a
cost
on
the
consumers
.
So
you're
actually
gonna
have
to
start
paying
drivers
for
their
waiting
time
.
And
if
you
don't
,
then
you
know
we'll
either
stop
pulling
out
of
this
DC
or
something
.
I
think
it
brings
people
to
the
negotiating
table
at
least
,
cause
the
conversation's
not
happening
.
The
conversation's
happening
on
the
Lombard
Trucking
Show
in
the
Everything
in
Logistics
podcast
.
The
conversation
needs
to
start
happening
between
these
shippers
,
receivers
,
the
carriers
and
the
government
,
or
else
,
like
I
said
,
eventually
the
turnover
becomes
unsustainable
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:44:54
And
that
I
would
think
that
there
would
be
,
you
know
,
the
,
the
ATA
,
as
we
mentioned
earlier
,
some
of
these
other
associations
.
I
would
think
that
that
would
be
front
and
center
for
them
to
be
prioritizing
,
because
it
affects
everyone
.
It
affects
everyone
throughout
the
entire
supply
chain
.
So
why
let
these
inefficiencies
,
you
know
,
which
sound
almost
like
power
trips
,
more
than
you
know
,
just
try
?
Maybe
just
overworked
individuals
?
Blythe Brumleve
1:45:17
Because
at
first
,
you
know
,
I
hear
about
these
,
these
stories
,
and
I
thought
they
were
,
like
you
said
,
more
COVID
related
.
You
know
,
a
lot
of
people
are
wearing
a
ton
of
hats
,
like
trying
to
get
their
job
done
.
You
know
,
maybe
it's
not
all
their
fault
,
but
when
you
set
the
tone
as
your
time
doesn't
matter
and
my
time
does
I
think
that
there's
a
larger
issue
at
play
and
I
would
think
that
some
of
these
associations
would
be
prioritizing
that
and
I'm
curious
is
there
any
theories
as
to
,
you
know
,
why
they're
not
going
after
?
You
know
,
some
serious
issues
that
affect
everyone
versus
you
know
,
some
of
these
other
issues
that
are
just
non-existent
.
Like
you
said
,
you
know
,
the
made
up
driver
shortage
has
been
perpetuated
for
the
last
decade
.
Mike Lombard
1:45:58
Well
,
yeah
,
so
for
the
,
for
the
ATA
,
they
don't
care
about
this
at
all
because
this
is
how
they
maintain
control
of
,
maintain
the
majority
control
of
the
industry
,
if
they
can
keep
the
turnover
high
and
they
can
keep
the
drivers
,
and
they
can
keep
the
drivers
essentially
non-unified
.
The
more
you
know
,
the
more
they
can
keep
them
divided
,
the
more
they
can
keep
them
arguing
,
the
more
they
can
keep
them
just
in
this
meat
grinder
.
That
it's
way
easier
for
them
to
control
,
because
the
ATA
doesn't
speak
on
behalf
of
drivers
.
If
they
did
,
then
you
know
we
wouldn't
have
issues
like
parking
,
we
wouldn't
have
these
retention
.
Mike Lombard
1:46:33
Ata
has
been
around
for
90
years
.
What
do
they
do
?
What
do
they
actually
do
for
drivers
If
they
,
as
an
organization
,
you
know
,
and
they're
the
ones
with
the
,
they
have
the
largest
amount
of
lobbying
dollars
to
government
they've
been
around
for
90
years
.
Why
do
we
have
all
these
problems
If
they've
been
around
for
essentially
the
history
of
the
entire
trucking
in
this
country
?
Why
do
they
have
these
problems
?
They
all
they
care
about
is
control
,
because
the
ATA
is
just
an
arm
of
these
large
companies
and
all
these
companies
are
,
you
know
,
publicly
traded
mega-corps
that
also
,
you
know
,
have
other
.
They
have
shareholders
who
happen
to
work
in
our
government
.
And
so
it's
just
this
vicious
circle
of
between
,
you
know
,
the
government
,
the
ATA
and
these
large
companies
.
They
need
to
make
sure
that
they
can
do
what
they
can
to
make
things
you
know
the
most
ruthlessly
profitable
for
them
,
at
the
cost
of
actual
people's
jobs
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:47:27
And
it
almost
sounds
like
you're
more
incentivized
to
keep
the
problem
going
instead
of
to
actually
fix
it
.
Mike Lombard
1:47:32
Oh
yeah
,
that's
exactly
,
that's
exactly
and
they
plan
on
doing
that
.
And
you
know
,
some
people
may
disagree
with
me
,
but
there's
an
organization
out
there
called
America
Without
Drivers
and
they're
doing
this
and
they
keep
the
problem
going
and
they
do
not
wanna
fix
these
problems
like
parking
pay
retention
.
They
don't
wanna
fix
these
because
there's
so
much
money
invested
in
the
tech
to
remove
the
drivers
out
of
the
vehicle
.
So
that's
the
overall
end
goal
is
that
there's
so
much
money
involved
in
technology
billions
of
dollars
to
get
drivers
out
of
the
truck
,
because
at
that
point
in
time
,
when
they're
able
to
remove
the
driver
from
the
vehicle
you've
removed
,
they're
able
to
seize
control
of
the
operation
.
So
the
people
who
can
afford
that
technology
,
who
can
drive
trucks
without
drivers
,
will
only
be
seven
to
12
major
companies
your
Night
Swift
,
warner
,
schneider
so
only
the
large
companies
,
all
the
medium
size
carriers
and
down
even
the
guys
who
own
50
,
100
trucks
.
They'll
never
be
able
to
afford
it
because
the
technology
is
so
expensive
and
it's
basically
the
holy
grail
of
what
they
need
that
all
the
big
companies
will
seize
control
of
the
industry
and
essentially
what
would
happen
is
trucking
would
go
the
way
of
the
railroads
,
where
it's
only
owned
by
very
few
companies
and
then
we're
at
a
point
to
where
the
federal
government
has
ownership
of
the
supply
chain
.
Mike Lombard
1:48:48
People
think
it
sounds
tinfoil-hattie
,
people
think
it's
conspiracy
.
But
when
you
look
at
the
,
when
you
look
at
where
some
of
these
people
work
you
,
when
you
look
at
Elaine
Chow
,
who's
Mitch
McConnell's
wife
being
involved
but
too
simple
when
you
look
at
these
people
who
are
on
all
the
,
you
know
the
board
of
directors
for
these
mega
carriers
and
the
people
who
,
where
the
ATA
people
all
came
from
and
who
they're
all
invested
with
,
it's
all
very
much
connected
into
this
one
wheel
and
that's
what
they're
doing
.
They
need
the
problem
to
keep
going
.
So
that
way
they're
.
They're
continually
incentivized
to
get
the
drivers
out
of
the
trucks
sooner
,
because
that's
what'll
happen
If
we
don't
get
ahead
of
these
issues
,
if
we
don't
get
ahead
of
the
tech
and
if
we
don't
get
ahead
of
just
making
this
a
better
career
for
people
for
generations
to
come
.
Mike Lombard
1:49:30
That's
the
biggest
thing
.
You're
talking
about
a
job
here
.
That
is
the
number
one
job
for
high
school
educated
males
in
all
50
states
in
the
country
.
And
you
know
,
when
you
talk
about
eliminating
that
,
the
societal
backlash
,
and
I
think
the
,
the
,
the
knockdown
,
what
it
will
do
to
the
,
to
the
overall
economy
would
be
would
be
detrimental
.
But
it
allows
the
ATA
you
know
,
that's
just
the
casualties
of
war
to
these
people
,
you
know
,
and
it's
all
just
for
them
to
maintain
control
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:49:57
And
so
for
I
guess
you
kind
of
hinted
to
it
with
the
tech
side
of
things
.
So
autonomous
vehicles
have
been
touted
for
years
and
years
.
I
mean
,
admittedly
,
I've
been
to
conferences
and
and
events
where
you
see
these
big
autonomous
vehicles
.
The
LiDAR
cameras
that
are
on
the
side
of
them
are
,
admitted
,
I
I
an
archeological
fan
,
so
I
LiDAR
technology
is
truly
fascinating
to
me
,
and
to
see
some
of
this
technology
up
close
in
person
is
is
very
impressive
.
But
I
still
don't
see
a
world
where
that
truck
is
driven
without
a
driver
inside
.
Is
that
,
is
that
what
you
?
You
feel
like
is
is
is
happening
with
the
driver
position
?
Is
that
the
?
You
know
these
,
a
lot
of
these
big
companies
would
rather
just
have
no
drivers
and
they
foresee
a
future
where
it's
just
all
autonomous
vehicles
all
the
time
.
Mike Lombard
1:50:46
They
,
they
definitely
see
it
that
way
.
And
now
the
,
the
ones
who
are
trying
,
you
know
,
there's
a
lot
of
gaslighters
out
there
who
are
trying
to
say
,
oh
,
I
don't
never
have
a
truck
.
And
they're
doing
that
with
photographers
now
too
,
when
it
comes
to
AI
,
because
the
people
who
are
really
on
the
firing
line
first
now
accountants
,
photographers
,
graphic
designers
and
they're
trying
to
say
,
oh
,
we'll
always
need
them
,
we'll
always
need
them
,
we're
going
to
need
a
human
to
check
them
.
That's
,
you
know
,
that's
all
you
know
smoke
and
mirrors
and
they're
doing
the
same
thing
with
trucking
.
Oh
,
it's
still
going
to
need
a
human
operator
.
We
can't
get
people
to
stay
in
the
seat
to
drive
the
truck
,
and
they're
going
to
expect
to
now
probably
drive
down
the
wages
.
And
you're
going
to
have
a
human
be
in
the
truck
and
do
nothing
and
then
be
and
be
away
from
home
,
and
they're
not
even
going
to
drive
it
at
all
and
have
no
autonomy
.
They've
released
all
autonomy
from
the
truck
.
The
operator
is
just
going
to
sit
there
in
the
sleeper
and
literally
do
nothing
,
you
know
.
Or
,
if
anything
,
they're
going
to
stay
in
the
driver's
seat
with
their
hands
off
the
wheel
and
just
be
able
to
snap
too
for
an
emergency
,
like
all
of
a
sudden
after
you
know
the
truck's
been
moving
for
14
or
15
hours
or
something
like
that
.
Even
the
thought
of
that
is
unreasonable
.
Mike Lombard
1:51:47
The
definite
main
goal
is
to
remove
the
driver
from
the
vehicle
.
Look
at
it
as
a
driver's
salary
to
these
companies
is
pitched
as
a
part
of
their
budget
sheet
.
It's
an
operational
cost
,
they
think
the
salary
,
they
just
call
the
salaries
back
to
that
number
thing
.
Mega
carries
look
at
drivers
as
just
a
number
.
They
see
their
salaries
as
an
operational
cost
,
when
really
that
operational
cost
is
a
salary
that
goes
to
a
human
being
who
buys
homes
,
has
kids
,
buys
food
and
is
a
participant
in
this
economy
and
in
this
market
.
And
eventually
,
when
you
do
this
with
this
technology
,
eventually
you're
going
to
run
out
of
people's
money
to
start
take
Like
cause
.
You're
going
to
want
them
to
keep
consuming
.
Mike Lombard
1:52:28
Well
,
when
you've
taken
the
jobs
away
of
photographers
,
journalists
,
graphic
designers
,
truckers
like
I
said
,
number
one
job
of
high
school
educated
males
in
all
50
States
of
America
,
when
you
eliminate
that
job
,
where
do
they
spend
their
money
?
Where
are
they
supposed
to
go
?
How
do
you
repurpose
them
?
You
know
you
can't
,
just
you
know
.
And
what
are
you
going
to
do
?
You're
going
to
tell
them
to
learn
to
code
Eventually
.
Eventually
,
the
coders
are
going
to
be
out
of
a
job
.
Eventually
,
the
coders
are
going
to
be
taken
over
by
the
AI
.
Mike Lombard
1:52:50
So
you
know
I
hate
to
sound
very
slippery
,
slopey
and
doom
and
gloom
,
but
this
is
just
why
I'm
so
passionate
on
solving
these
issues
and
how
you
know
if
the
American
people
knew
about
these
issues
and
realized
how
just
unsafe
and
unsatisfactory
they
were
,
because
in
other
industries
and
other
jobs
,
if
they
couldn't
do
things
like
,
if
you
couldn't
go
to
the
bathroom
at
your
job
,
you
know
,
if
you
weren't
allowed
to
use
the
bathroom
,
oh
sorry
,
you
can't
use
the
bathroom
.
We're
actually
not
letting
the
accounting
team
use
the
bathroom
anymore
because
a
couple
of
the
accountants
were
really
dirty
.
This
is
something
drivers
,
this
is
something
women
drivers
deal
with
on
a
daily
basis
.
Oh
,
we
don't
let
drivers
use
the
bathroom
because
a
couple
made
them
dirty
.
Oh
,
you
can't
park
here
because
they
make
it
dirty
,
you
know
.
Mike Lombard
1:53:29
So
,
just
to
the
point
where
going
to
work
and
coming
home
from
work
as
a
truck
driver
,
so
starting
,
you
know
starting
and
stopping
your
day
and
doing
regular
things
throughout
your
life
is
become
a
roadblock
.
If
this
is
in
any
other
industry
streets
would
be
.
You
know
people
would
be
revolting
,
people
would
be
riding
,
but
,
like
I
said
,
they've
driven
the
floor
down
to
this
race
to
bottom
with
bringing
in
truck
drivers
.
We're
at
the
point
now
where
state
governments
are
forcing
people
to
go
to
truck
driving
school
.
And
when
you
could
do
that
,
when
you
can
keep
the
talent
turning
over
,
when
you
can
keep
the
talent
pool
low
,
you're
not
gonna
have
any
pushback
and
you're
not
gonna
have
people
who
are
gonna
stand
up
for
the
job
because
they
don't
really
care
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:54:07
What
do
you
mean
by
the
state
forcing
people
to
become
drivers
?
Is
it
more
like
a
work
release
program
,
or
how
does
that
work
?
Mike Lombard
1:54:15
Oh
,
like
I
said
,
like
I
mentioned
that
earlier
about
how
,
when
I
went
to
CDL
school
,
three
people
were
there
sent
by
the
unemployment
office
.
They
said
you
know
,
we're
gonna
cut
off
your
unemployment
if
you
don't
go
to
CDL
school
,
because
the
CDL
school
itself
is
taxpayer
subsidized
and
so
they
just
send
you
know
,
they
just
send
these
guys
there
for
free
,
but
that's
how
they
threaten
them
to
get
them
off
unemployment
,
so
they're
,
in
a
sense
,
being
forced
to
become
a
truck
driver
.
They're
not
being
forced
to
go
to
school
for
anything
else
,
but
they're
being
forced
to
go
to
school
being
a
truck
driver
.
That's
what
I
mean
by
,
like
,
the
state
forcing
people
to
do
it
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:54:49
Yeah
that's
.
I've
never
heard
that
before
.
I
would
assume
that
maybe
you
would
have
an
option
to
choose
from
a
variety
of
different
trades
,
to
pick
which
one
you
would
like
the
most
.
But
if
you're
being
forced
into
one
and
only
,
that
definitely
sounds
like
some
lobbying
efforts
that
are
going
on
there
.
Mike Lombard
1:55:05
The
ATA
and
their
agenda
and
its
consequences
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:55:09
Are
there
any
companies
besides
Walmart
that
are
doing
a
good
job
of
treating
their
drivers
with
respect
and
to
make
it
to
an
attractive
career
that
allows
for
that
retention
of
the
driver
for
30
years
,
like
you
said
before
?
Mike Lombard
1:55:26
Yeah
,
the
company
I
used
to
work
for
,
r&r
Solutions
.
They're
great
.
Like
most
of
the
drivers
there
have
stayed
for
five
plus
years
.
The
only
reason
they
left
is
they
wanted
to
get
their
own
truck
and
move
freight
for
some
friends
.
They
made
connections
to
do
it
that
way
,
which
is
good
.
Any
employer
encourages
that
.
Like
I
said
,
r&r
was
so
nice
when
they
found
out
that
I
bought
a
truck
they
wanted
to
help
.
That's
a
sign
of
a
good
company
,
of
when
you're
gonna
quit
,
they
wanna
help
you
get
to
the
next
level
.
They
loved
that
,
and
so
them
,
as
is
how
they
operated
,
what
their
pay
scale
was
,
what
their
PTO
was
,
what
their
bonuses
were
their
mileage
or
safety
bonuses
.
Just
how
they
treated
you
with
the
utmost
respect
when
I
was
there
for
orientation
,
gave
me
a
company
car
to
drive
around
,
paid
for
the
hotel
for
me
to
stay
at
,
like
when
they
were
still
waiting
on
some
paperwork
.
They
wanted
me
to
get
paid
.
So
they
let
me
drive
one
of
their
daycaps
and
do
local
routes
,
and
so
they'll
keep
you
rolling
,
get
you
moving
.
Mike Lombard
1:56:29
But
another
company
I
really
wanna
give
a
huge
shout
out
to
is
a
company
called
Central
Oregon
Truck
Lines
.
They're
a
flatbed
company
and
they
have
employees
not
paid
by
the
company
,
who
post
on
TikTok
quite
often
about
what
their
paychecks
are
and
they
go
into
detail
about
what
they're
paid
,
what
their
pay
per
mile
,
how
they
get
raises
,
their
Tark
pay
.
They
are
a
flatbed
company
.
They
give
you
the
option
of
wanting
to
drive
a
10
speed
manual
,
so
they're
not
forcing
you
into
trucks
.
Maybe
you
don't
wanna
be
in
,
so
they
want
guys
to
be
in
trucks
.
They
want
they
like
to
.
They
give
them
like
the
most
autonomy
they
can
,
which
is
the
biggest
thing
,
like
giving
the
driver
the
autonomy
,
but
then
,
on
the
same
way
,
they're
what
they
have
for
benefits
on
PTO
and
however
close
if
you
live
in
a
certain
area
,
you
could
probably
get
home
every
week
.
There's
a
.
Mike Lombard
1:57:18
I'm
in
a
Facebook
group
where
somebody
was
talking
about
how
they
had
a
load
get
canceled
.
I
was
supposed
to
take
them
home
and
Central
Oregon
paid
for
their
flight
home
To
be
home
for
Memorial
Day
weekend
.
Think
like
getting
a
rental
,
like
paying
for
their
rental
cars
if
they
had
a
breakdown
.
Like
insane
stuff
.
The
company
essentially
bends
itself
over
backwards
for
their
drivers
and
this
is
coming
from
their
drivers
and
I
had
one
of
their
drivers
on
my
show
who
went
into
detail
about
how
that's
why
he's
there
,
like
he
wanted
to
buy
his
own
truck
too
and
kind
of
do
his
own
thing
.
Mike Lombard
1:57:50
And
he
just
came
to
the
decision
of
why
would
I
Like
when
he
went
to
,
when
he
put
his
paycheck
versus
what
he'd
get
as
owning
his
own
truck
,
and
then
the
benefits
of
how
often
he
can
go
home
,
the
you
know
,
everything
like
that
.
When
he
weighed
the
options
,
he's
like
I'm
better
off
,
like
my
quality
of
life
is
better
here
at
this
specific
company
.
So
Central
Oregon
Truck
Lines
I
have
to
give
them
a
shout
out
and
I'm
sure
there's
many
others
and
I
know
that
there's
others
.
I
always
like
talking
to
people
on
my
show
who
have
good
companies
to
talk
about
,
because
it's
you
know
that
information
is
hard
to
find
when
it
comes
to
finding
a
good
company
to
work
for
.
It's
either
you
know
it's
,
either
through
word
of
mouth
or
meeting
people
,
and
you
know
you're
not
going
to
find
them
online
,
because
if
you
search
best
trucking
jobs
,
the
ones
that
come
up
are
the
ones
that
just
pay
the
most
amount
of
money
and
SEO
ads
.
Blythe Brumleve
1:58:39
Yeah
,
they've
hacked
the
SEO
system
in
order
to
make
that
happen
and
make
for
their
I
guess
they're
listening
to
appear
higher
.
I
know
all
too
well
about
those
different
tactics
,
but
separately
I
will
say
that
another
trucking
company
based
in
Dallas
,
texas
or
yeah
,
it
is
Dallas
Texas
BCB
Transport
full
disclosure
,
they're
a
client
of
mine
,
but
they
are
very
rare
in
that
they
have
a
five
star
review
on
Google
and
they
create
a
ton
of
great
content
for
their
drivers
.
They're
always
preaching
a
culture
of
safety
.
So
there
are
some
out
there
,
but
I've
always
just
wondered
you
know
why
their
what
kind
of
benefits
are
being
structured
at
some
of
the
smaller
carriers
versus
the
larger
carriers
,
and
how
did
those
compete
?
But
it
sounds
like
the
larger
carriers
are
kind
of
or
the
smaller
carriers
are
almost
,
with
their
benefits
and
the
things
that
they
actually
care
about
.
You
know
there's
a
lot
of
lessons
that
could
be
learned
there
.
Mike Lombard
1:59:33
you
know
,
by
from
the
bigger
companies
or
on
behalf
of
and
it
gets
really
tough
because
with
finding
that
good
,
respectable
carrier
,
because
then
we
get
into
the
argument
of
1099
versus
W2
.
And
some
people
think
that
you
can
possibly
pay
less
in
taxes
off
of
1099
,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
small
carriers
out
there
who
are
kind
of
,
you
know
,
fly
by
night
,
they
have
older
,
you
know
,
older
modeled
equipment
and
they
,
you
know
,
they
just
kind
of
need
guys
in
trucks
and
yeah
,
they'll
treat
them
right
and
run
them
whenever
they
want
,
but
there's
still
no
benefits
there
.
There's
no
retirement
,
there's
no
401K
,
there's
no
.
You
know
there's
no
pension
or
that
.
That
you
know
there's
no
.
You
know
there's
no
PTO
,
really
you
know
.
So
they'll
pay
these
guys
because
I
see
it
all
the
time
,
especially
it's
popular
in
Texas
.
Mike Lombard
2:00:18
You
know
there'll
be
guys
who
have
you
know
eight
trucks
.
They're
pulling
containers
out
of
Galveston
or
what
have
you
,
and
they'll
pay
you
a
70
something
cents
per
mile
or
something
.
But
you
know
there's
no
PTO
,
there's
no
.
You
know
,
like
there's
still
no
incentives
to
it
.
It's
,
I
wouldn't
have
a
reason
to
go
do
that
so
that
a
lot
of
people
will
sell
,
a
lot
of
people
will
maliciously
recruit
of
the
same
.
We'll
pay
percentage
or
we'll
pay
you
10.99
at
X
amount
of
cents
per
mile
and
it's
like
but
you're
still
running
yourself
into
.
It's
not
sustainable
as
a
career
Like
it's
not
.
That's
not
where
you
want
to
be
career
wise
,
because
most
people
eventually
have
families
,
most
people
want
houses
and
when
you're
a
10.99
guy
it's
really
hard
to
get
a
house
.
So
it's
like
that
.
The
way
the
structure
is
set
up
for
where
guys
,
where
people
can
go
work
or
how
they
work
,
is
really
tough
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:01:05
And
so
with
all
of
I
guess
that
we've
covered
a
lot
of
topics
.
You
know
,
really
you
know
hitting
into
a
lot
of
the
bigger
problems
that
exist
and
permeate
throughout
the
trucking
industry
,
and
you
hinted
to
it
earlier
.
But
you
talk
about
a
lot
of
these
issues
on
your
show
,
the
Lumbar
Trucking
Show
,
and
so
give
us
a
sense
of
you
know
.
You're
obviously
very
educated
and
passionate
on
these
topics
.
Is
that
primarily
the
reason
why
you
wanted
to
start
up
your
own
show
?
Mike Lombard
2:01:35
Yeah
,
I'd
say
it's
definitely
a
part
of
it
.
That's
where
it
eventually
led
itself
to
,
because
the
reason
why
I
wanted
to
start
making
content
was
to
tell
my
story
,
because
I
was
learning
about
trucking
from
other
people's
stories
.
At
first
.
When
I
started
driving
,
I
was
like
I
don't
want
to
put
myself
out
there
.
You
know
,
I
don't
want
to
embarrass
myself
.
You
know
how
,
you
know
,
the
internet
can
be
ruthless
.
I
didn't
want
to
fall
victim
of
any
.
You
know
,
I
didn't
want
to
a
hundred
people
calling
me
a
dumbass
or
I
did
it
wrong
or
you're
stupid
.
But
then
eventually
I
was
like
,
well
,
you
know
what
,
if
I
could
share
my
corner
of
things
,
that
could
help
,
because
that's
the
thing
.
I
saw
other
problems
people
were
having
.
I
was
like
,
well
,
let
me
put
my
story
out
there
and
start
just
telling
about
,
you
know
,
talking
about
what
my
day
to
day
is
.
And
then
,
as
that
,
you
know
,
as
I
kept
talking
about
it
,
I
kept
learning
.
And
then
I
kept
seeing
the
issues
and
I
was
like
,
well
,
hope
,
now
wait
a
minute
.
I
feel
as
though
I
kind
of
felt
obligated
,
like
,
hey
,
we
need
to
talk
about
this
stuff
,
because
I
don't
think
this
is
right
and
I
don't
think
we're
in
a
,
you
know
,
in
a
sustainable
.
I
don't
think
we're
in
something
that's
sustainable
.
Mike Lombard
2:02:34
And
then
I
got
my
own
truck
and
learned
even
more
just
about
things
going
on
in
the
market
.
Like
you
just
,
it
just
absolutely
exploded
,
like
you
know
,
burst
,
bust
the
doors
wide
open
.
I'm
learning
so
much
and
I
just
met
so
many
more
people
that
that's
where
it
is
now
.
It's
like
,
hey
,
I
want
to
start
having
these
conversations
with
as
many
people
as
I
can
and
get
you
know
,
get
this
content
out
there
and
along
the
way
,
I
can
rebuild
my
brand
alongside
of
it
,
because
I
come
from
the
.
I
come
from
a
good
place
of
trying
to
to
unify
rather
than
try
to
diversify
and
split
the
issues
.
And
there's
there's
things
I
think
people
can
come
together
out
in
this
industry
is
hey
,
we
could
probably
fix
parking
,
truckers
probably
deserve
a
little
bit
of
a
raise
and
hey
,
also
,
they're
doing
a
job
that
can
kill
you
Like
.
Mike Lombard
2:03:18
So
we're
at
this
point
to
where
,
you
know
,
the
job
itself
isn't
the
healthiest
job
.
It
requires
living
on
the
road
,
it
requires
you
having
to
do
things
like
you
know
,
maintain
,
you
know
,
maintain
your
healthy
eating
.
You're
sitting
for
long
periods
of
time
,
which
isn't
good
for
you
.
All
of
that
are
factors
into
this
recruiting
and
retention
.
Because
when
you
are
,
you
know
,
when
you
are
unhealthy
,
when
you
are
not
taking
care
of
yourself
,
you
are
not
as
coherent
and
not
as
likely
to
self-advocate
for
all
the
issues
around
you
and
for
all
you
know
.
For
,
by
any
sense
of
this
,
when
you
are
in
a
position
to
where
you
are
,
you
know
,
unhealthy
,
weak
and
docile
,
you're
not
going
to
think
you
do
deserve
these
things
.
So
you
just
have
passive
,
aggressive
,
you
know
,
or
projections
outward
so
they
don't
care
,
they
think
is
,
oh
,
I'm
going
to
wait
at
the
ship
or
a
sear
of
a
while
.
I
guess
that's
life
,
I
guess
I
deserve
this
and
that's
where
it
goes
.
And
so
that's
another
part
of
reason
why
I
twisted
content
is
because
I've
been
going
through
a
health
,
a
health
journey
and
a
health
and
fitness
journey
and
be
trying
to
become
the
best
possible
version
of
myself
.
In
that
,
during
that
pathway
,
I've
just
learned
that
personally
,
I
know
my
worth
.
And
so
in
being
over
the
road
and
staying
physically
fit
,
doing
things
like
training
to
run
full
marathons
,
in
that
,
in
During
this
journey
,
I've
realized
that
I'm
worth
more
.
Mike Lombard
2:04:38
You
know
,
I've
realized
that
I
deserve
more
.
I'm
not
just
a
truck
driver
,
I'm
lumbar
,
you
know
.
Like
that
,
that's
who
I
am
and
what
,
what
I
bring
to
the
table
.
Like
when
I'm
out
here
delivering
your
freight
,
like
I'm
the
face
of
you
know
,
I'm
the
face
for
for
war
and
transport
when
I'm
delivering
certain
the
freight
,
but
I'm
also
the
face
for
myself
in
my
own
brand
,
and
that
applies
to
every
single
driver
.
Like
they
need
to
realize
that
,
hey
,
fit
,
fit
right
now
or
not
.
Hey
,
you
are
actually
worth
more
.
You're
worth
a
hundred
percent
more
.
So
when
it
comes
to
Truck
parking
,
when
it
comes
to
you
getting
more
pay
,
yes
,
these
drivers
deserve
it
.
Mike Lombard
2:05:12
So
I
come
at
this
from
the
foundation
of
hey
,
if
we
start
taking
control
of
our
health
,
personal
excellence
this
is
for
drivers
and
this
is
really
for
anybody
.
Your
personal
excellence
as
a
person
is
the
number
one
rebellion
.
And
all
this
because
if
everybody
could
start
to
come
together
On
their
health
and
fitness
,
taking
care
of
themselves
,
becoming
elite
versions
of
themselves
,
because
when
they
do
that
,
they're
gonna
want
to
know
more
,
as
I
,
like
it
happens
in
this
health
journey
.
Because
as
your
physical
health
improves
,
so
does
your
mental
health
.
And
all
I
want
to
do
,
you
know
.
Besides
,
you
know
be
healthy
and
work
out
is
I
just
want
to
keep
learning
,
learning
about
what
brokers
to
do
,
learning
about
what
the
customer
service
department
does
it
more
.
Learning
about
what
every
role
does
.
So
I
become
better
.
Mike Lombard
2:05:51
So
that
way
,
when
push
comes
to
shove
,
oh
no
,
I
know
what
you
guys
are
talking
about
.
I
know
what
you
do
.
I'm
worth
more
.
I'm
not
just
a
truck
driver
.
And
when
I
and
so
and
that's
why
I'm
making
the
content
I
do
from
the
position
,
I
do
because
I
want
other
drivers
to
know
dude
,
you're
,
you're
worth
,
you're
worth
it
,
you
guys
are
worth
it
.
You're
better
than
how
the
government's
treating
you
.
You're
better
than
how
the
ship
isn't
received
or
treating
you
.
You're
better
than
how
these
mega-carriers
are
treating
with
you
.
You
know
,
you
know
,
you
know
a
lot
of
guys
.
You
go
on
tic-tac
.
Mike Lombard
2:06:18
They'll
say
I'm
the
lifeblood
of
this
country
,
I'm
a
driver
,
I
do
this
hard
job
,
this
,
okay
,
do
the
hard
things
as
well
to
keep
yourself
,
you
know
,
elite
and
mentally
and
physically
fit
.
And
then
see
,
you
know
how
they
,
how
they
treat
you
.
Then
see
,
like
you
,
when
you
become
a
force
to
be
reckoned
with
,
they're
not
gonna
keep
.
You
know
,
they're
not
gonna
push
you
over
.
Like
I
said
,
they
like
it
and
this
is
a
societal
thing
.
They
want
you
weak
,
they
want
you
tired
,
they
want
you
sick
,
they
want
you
dependent
.
Mike Lombard
2:06:45
They're
doing
that
with
the
labor
industry
of
the
trucking
market
.
They're
keeping
them
weak
because
they're
at
the
point
They'll
just
quit
.
You
know
they
think
they're
just
quitting
and
the
more
they
keep
quitting
,
keeping
it
going
,
the
better
.
So
the
number
one
way
to
start
improving
today
,
you
know
some
of
these
things
,
start
doing
the
hard
things
.
Get
fit
and
take
care
of
yourself
.
And
that's
kind
of
where
I
aim
,
my
,
you
know
I
stand
on
the
platform
of
that
with
my
content
and
then
with
that
voicing
and
talking
about
the
issues
at
hand
,
like
Parking
,
like
pay
,
you
know
,
like
these
big
carriers
and
the
ATA's
agenda
,
and
it's
just
,
it
gives
me
a
solid
grounding
to
.
You
know
,
really
,
speak
on
this
stuff
from
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:07:23
And
I
love
that
you
brought
up
the
fitness
aspect
of
it
because
I
remember
very
early
on
,
you
know
,
during
COVID
,
when
you
know
I
had
heard
from
this
epidemiologist
that
was
on
,
you
know
,
joe
Rogan
program
and
I
was
taking
notes
because
he
was
talking
about
how
you
know
,
had
how
COVID
had
impacted
China
and
how
it
impacted
smokers
more
than
anything
,
and
that
you
know
with
the
US
,
and
he
was
specifically
asked
Well
,
do
you
think
that
that
COVID
is
going
to
impact
you
know
,
the
US
in
the
same
way
?
And
he
said
it's
going
to
hit
us
worse
because
of
the
obesity
epidemic
that
that's
gone
on
in
this
country
.
That's
almost
not
almost
.
It's
definitely
celebrated
now
and
he
was
giving
so
much
.
You
know
his
advice
was
to
make
sure
you
get
enough
sun
and
and
to
work
out
and
stay
fit
and
hopefully
you
will
be
okay
.
And
I
remembered
listening
to
that
podcast
,
like
in
March
of
2020
,
right
when
everything
was
,
you
know
,
the
shit
was
hitting
the
fan
and
I
told
me
I
was
already
pretty
fit
,
but
it
was
a
much
more
of
a
conscious
effort
to
try
to
control
what
I
can
control
and
those
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:08:25
Since
then
,
it's
just
been
Sort
of
,
you
know
,
industry
after
I
guess
,
institution
after
institution
is
just
so
.
The
trust
level
is
so
low
nowadays
that
I
am
so
thankful
and
I
was
able
to
listen
to
different
opinions
early
on
during
that
crisis
because
I
Felt
like
it
really
saved
my
mental
health
.
It
saved
our
family's
mental
health
and
and
just
the
concept
of
ownership
of
your
own
health
and
journey
and
how
that
can
lead
to
a
more
positive
outlook
on
on
life
.
Because
there's
so
much
unhappiness
Now
that
is
just
permeates
throughout
the
entire
country
on
social
media
and
I
wonder
,
if
I
do
wonder
if
that
has
a
strong
,
I
guess
,
effect
.
The
lack
of
working
out
,
the
lack
of
going
outside
,
the
lack
of
taking
care
of
yourself
if
that
is
by
design
,
you
know
,
by
the
institutions
at
large
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:09:22
You
know
not
to
put
on
a
tinfoil
hat
theory
,
but
I
do
firmly
believe
that
you
know
that
what
you
just
described
of
what's
happening
to
truck
drivers
is
also
happening
to
at
a
large
scale
,
that
the
population
of
the
US
,
where
you
are
just
put
into
this
bucket
of
they
want
you
to
be
dependent
on
the
state
instead
of
being
that
self-reliance
sort
of
.
You
know
the
,
the
concept
of
what
,
yeah
,
I
guess
sort
of
makes
you
know
an
American
.
An
American
is
kind
of
,
I
guess
where
I'm
trying
to
go
is
you
need
some
self-ownership
,
you
need
to
be
able
to
take
accountability
,
and
taking
care
of
your
health
first
and
foremost
Sets
you
up
with
that
strong
foundation
to
take
care
of
every
other
stressor
in
life
that
is
going
to
be
eventually
thrown
at
you
.
Mike Lombard
2:10:06
Yeah
,
I
couldn't
agree
more
,
and
it's
funny
you
say
that
about
whoever
that
epidemiologist
Was
,
because
I'm
sure
him
saying
that
in
an
interview
probably
garnered
negative
attention
from
mainstream
narratives
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:10:18
I
was
taken
down
from
YouTube
the
whole
nine
and
I
thought
this
was
such
a
nuanced
Conversation
.
Why
would
you
you
know
,
bad
mouth
that
it
was
clearly
by
design
?
Mike Lombard
2:10:28
Yeah
and
it's
yeah
.
It
says
a
lot
about
you
know
how
people
view
that
.
That's
why
.
That's
why
,
like
and
I
I
take
that
phrase
from
Andy
forsella
,
who
has
said
personal
excellence
is
the
number
one
rebellion
,
because
being
fit
at
this
point
is
now
a
stance
of
Rebellion
against
that
,
because
there's
a
narrative
being
pushed
that
you
don't
have
to
be
one
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:10:46
Really
that's
untrue
and
it
trickles
right
,
celebrated
to
it
,
celebrated
being
being
obese
and
that's
I'm
like
you're
gonna
die
20
years
earlier
Because
of
this
.
Why
are
you
listening
to
this
?
Mike Lombard
2:10:57
Yeah
,
I'm
not
saying
go
out
there
and
berate
people
for
be
,
you
know
,
being
obese
like
I
said
I
was
.
You
know
,
I
was
275
pounds
at
one
point
and
yeah
,
I
wouldn't
like
it
,
if
you
know
I
wouldn't
.
I
don't
want
to
be
absolutely
bully
,
but
there's
also
like
,
I
also
don't
want
to
be
Lied
to
,
like
if
a
doctor
ever
told
me
that
,
hey
,
you're
,
you're
on
the
right
path
,
you're
good
to
go
,
you
could
sustain
this
,
you
know
,
for
the
next
hundred
years
.
If
you
want
to
live
for
another
hundred
,
you're
like
,
no
,
at
that
point
it's
not
.
But
that's
where
it's
where
it's
headed
.
Mike Lombard
2:11:22
And
in
regards
to
the
truck
thing
,
if
,
if
,
health
and
fitness
and
this
is
how
you
know
,
the
mega
carriers
don't
care
about
health
and
fitness
.
Because
if
they
did
care
,
they
would
create
an
environment
,
the
employee
Environment
for
drivers
would
be
encompassed
around
it
,
like
they
would
be
In
current
.
Like
all
they'll
say
and
and
and
.
They
do
this
all
the
time
because
CSA
scores
talk
about
driver
fitness
is
something
on
CSA
scores
,
and
so
they
give
the
rhetoric
of
oh
,
you
should
exercise
for
30
minutes
a
day
,
it's
in
sleep
eight
hours
a
night
and
it's
like
,
and
they
tell
you
what
you
should
do
,
but
it's
not
about
yet
.
It's
like
I
well
,
I
could
tell
you
what
to
do
too
.
I
,
I
could
tell
you
to
do
things
and
this
is
how
you
stay
healthy
.
But
you
need
to
.
You
know
you
need
to
create
the
environment
where
that's
the
norm
.
So
these
companies
,
they
do
nothing
in
regards
to
health
and
fitness
.
You
know
that
,
like
went
,
just
went
just
down
to
the
,
to
the
parking
level
,
like
the
fact
that
this
,
this
job
,
requires
you
to
sometimes
park
in
strange
parts
of
town
or
Walmart
parking
lots
or
something
like
that
,
the
environment
for
the
truck
driver
Doesn't
even
encourage
.
You
know
,
this
sort
of
this
.
You
know
this
sort
of
healthy
lifestyle
.
The
amenities
that
are
around
for
truckers
Never
so
doesn't
support
this
lifestyle
.
The
food
that's
at
the
truck
stops
,
so
at
the
,
so
at
the
largest
scale
,
so
at
the
largest
scale
,
from
the
,
these
top
retail
truck
stops
on
down
,
they
sell
you
unhealthy
food
.
The
trucking
companies
don't
care
.
They
don't
,
you
know
.
They
don't
encourage
you
to
grocery
shop
.
They
don't
pay
for
you
to
have
an
air
fryer
in
your
truck
.
They're
not
trying
to
tell
you
hey
,
this
is
what
a
diet
is
.
You
know
they
don't
have
nutritionists
working
for
their
companies
.
They
don't
invest
in
any
of
this
.
So
if
they
so
,
if
they
did
care
about
the
health
and
wellness
of
their
drivers
,
they
would
do
something
about
it
.
We
have
companies
that
I
have
a
.
Mike Lombard
2:13:05
I
was
just
talking
to
a
girl
the
other
day
.
She
said
that
the
health
insurance
from
her
company
pays
for
a
year's
subscription
of
Peloton
.
Find
me
a
trucking
company
that
that
does
that
,
you
know
.
Find
me
a
trucking
company
that
has
,
you
know
,
it
gives
you
HSA
or
discounts
to
go
to
chiropractors
or
for
,
yeah
,
free
yoga
Streaming
or
something
like
that
.
It's
not
.
Mike Lombard
2:13:27
That's
the
thing
it
needs
to
be
Taking
care
of
yourself
and
in
the
health
of
fitness
.
It
needs
to
be
the
crux
of
any
Employer
because
,
let's
face
it
,
we're
,
you're
at
your
employer
more
than
you're
with
your
own
family
,
and
so
your
employer
needs
to
have
it
Some
.
Your
employer
is
an
influence
on
your
life
.
Now
it's
not
like
you
just
clock
in
,
clock
out
.
Maybe
it
used
to
be
that
way
in
the
80s
,
but
guess
what
work
comes
home
with
everybody
.
People
are
Very
into
their
careers
,
their
career
driven
at
this
point
.
So
and
these
,
these
companies
know
that
a
healthier
and
more
fit
employee
,
a
well
taken
care
of
and
healthy
employees
Going
to
be
more
productive
,
more
alert
,
better
at
what
they
do
,
more
passionate
,
perform
better
.
Mike Lombard
2:14:06
And
the
same
thing
applies
to
truckers
.
If
you
want
to
keep
them
,
you
know
,
eventually
it
becomes
unsustainable
for
the
driver
.
They
fail
a
DOT
physical
.
You
know
whatever
pathway
to
go
.
These
drivers
alone
,
even
if
they
make
it
their
whole
career
,
they
probably
won't
make
it
to
retirement
.
They
could
like
average
.
You
know
,
the
average
age
of
retirement
in
the
US
is
64
.
The
average
life
expectancy
of
a
truck
driver
is
61
.
So
even
if
you
,
no
matter
what
,
whether
you
quit
the
trucking
industry
or
you
stay
in
or
whatever
the
odds
are
,
you're
not
gonna
,
you're
not
even
gonna
make
it
.
So
you
worked
all
your
life
.
You
know
,
for
these
people
who
kind
of
took
advantage
of
you
and
you
know
,
and
you
know
we're
just
supposed
to
thumbs
up
that
it's
okay
.
Mike Lombard
2:14:46
And
as
people
are
just
,
you
know
,
casualties
of
it
,
like
I
and
I
hate
to
sound
doom
and
gloom
I
trucking
as
a
whole
,
as
a
career
,
has
repurposed
me
in
so
many
ways
.
In
fact
,
you
know
,
if
you
talk
to
me
over
three
years
ago
,
I
wouldn't
have
this
level
of
Passion
,
I
wouldn't
be
this
fired
up
because
I
,
you
know
,
I
wouldn't
care
that
much
.
I
would
just
can't
be
caring
about
,
you
know
,
getting
off
work
.
I
work
twice
as
much
as
I've
ever
worked
like
in
my
life
,
some
weeks
and
I'm
doing
more
,
producing
content
,
training
for
marathons
,
helping
other
drivers
with
their
fitness
,
on
the
first
format
I'm
doing
so
much
more
with
with
less
amount
of
time
.
Mike Lombard
2:15:20
Trucking
has
done
that
for
me
.
It's
,
you
know
,
it's
such
a
career
that's
motivated
me
in
a
certain
way
.
But
I
know
that
there's
problems
we
just
need
to
fix
.
Because
I
want
to
.
I'm
trying
to
leave
the
world
a
better
place
.
Then
you
know
when
I
got
it
,
that's
what
I'm
trying
to
do
,
like
I
came
into
something
I
want
the
next
generation
of
truckers
to
succeed
Thrive
and
do
well
,
and
there's
things
along
the
way
that
we
need
to
fix
,
or
or
else
they're
not
going
to
be
able
to
have
it
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:15:43
So
with
you
creating
content
.
Yeah
,
I
think
you
just
celebrated
your
69th
episode
obligatory
,
nice
comment
in
there
,
and
so
you
have
the
.
You
have
the
privilege
of
being
able
to
talk
to
several
different
people
within
the
industry
.
You
know
leaders
,
truckers
,
you
know
.
When
I
say
leaders
,
I
mean
leaders
that
you
know
within
the
organization
,
inside
the
company
,
and
also
drivers
as
well
.
Other
folks
from
you
know
that
surround
the
industry
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:16:10
So
if
you
were
to
give
advice
to
other
carriers
out
there
who
want
to
recruit
better
drivers
,
who
want
to
retain
them
once
they
actually
get
them
through
the
door
,
what
kind
of
things
have
you
seen
from
other
companies
,
or
maybe
even
some
of
these
mega
carriers
,
that
that
should
be
implemented
?
Is
it
,
is
it
a
fitness
program
?
Is
it
a
full
benefits
from
the
day
that
you
start
?
Is
it
?
You
know
?
I
guess
I
don't
know
what
they
could
do
about
truck
parking
,
because
that's
such
a
,
you
know
,
a
unique
situation
for
every
city
and
state
and
location
.
But
what
are
some
of
those
things
that
that
some
of
these
smaller
carriers
could
maybe
take
advantage
of
and
start
offering
their
drivers
?
And
maybe
some
of
the
the
mega
carriers
are
like
,
what
would
be
that
,
that
pathway
to
to
writing
some
of
these
wrongs
?
Mike Lombard
2:16:56
Yeah
,
I
think
it
might
have
to
change
.
They
may
have
to
change
how
they
how
they
route
their
trucks
.
They
may
have
to
change
some
operational
things
,
some
scheduling
things
.
I
think
create
emphasizing
work-life
balance
is
huge
.
So
look
and
I
know
that
there's
tough
truckers
out
there
Look
,
I've
stayed
out
for
seven
,
eight
weeks
at
a
clip
before
and
,
hey
,
I
love
being
over
the
road
and
when
I
and
I
just
am
trying
to
correct
myself
and
save
myself
from
the
critics
who
are
like
,
well
,
if
you
don't
like
it
,
get
a
local
job
or
something
,
but
implement
a
work-life
balance
for
these
over-the-road
guys
.
Create
a
schedule
Schedule
that
is
healthy
and
sustainable
for
guys
who
are
going
over
the
road
.
But
even
for
the
local
jobs
,
create
a
system
.
You're
the
carrier
.
The
carrier
does
have
the
power
to
tell
their
customers
,
to
Actually
make
a
claim
,
stand
up
for
their
drivers
and
say
,
hey
,
this
is
how
we're
gonna
route
our
trucks
,
these
are
gonna
be
the
hours
.
So
create
a
schedule
that
offers
a
work-life
balance
,
similar
to
how
a
lot
of
Bel
cases
are
going
work
from
home
and
how
a
lot
of
places
are
doing
hybrids
and
a
lot
of
places
emphasize
or
they're
doing
four-day
work
week
type
stuff
.
Mike Lombard
2:18:01
There's
other
industries
who
are
evolving
to
the
work-life
balance
of
the
talent
market
out
there
.
Trucking
companies
can
do
the
same
.
They
don't
need
to
be
stuck
in
this
Stuck
in
the
past
of
trying
of
doing
that
.
Me
like
what
we
can't
change
.
It's
how
it's
always
been
.
Come
up
with
a
schedule
of
how
you're
gonna
route
your
trucks
that
would
provide
a
driver
,
you
know
,
based
off
of
I
guess
that
extrapolated
of
how
often
drivers
want
to
go
home
and
for
how
long
and
during
which
days
,
because
obviously
drivers
want
to
be
home
around
weekends
because
that's
when
all
their
family
and
friends
Probably
aren't
working
.
So
it's
like
,
figure
out
a
schedule
at
that
macro
level
of
hey
,
this
is
how
we're
gonna
run
,
offer
the
option
for
guys
who
want
to
live
on
the
road
,
sure
,
but
figure
that
out
,
you
know
.
So
figure
out
a
scheduling
.
You
know
we
have
all
this
that
access
to
unlimited
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:18:45
I
was
gonna
say
that's
where
maybe
AI
can
come
in
and
maybe
help
extrapolate
some
of
that
data
and
help
these
companies
,
you
know
,
make
it
.
It
feels
like
it
just
needs
to
to
be
a
larger
priority
.
If
you're
going
like
you
said
,
if
you're
going
to
place
these
large
company-wide
discussions
,
industry-wide
discussions
,
around
.
You
know
,
work
from
home
,
four-day
work
weeks
,
you
know
what
?
What
does
the
modern
work
schedule
look
like
?
They
shouldn't
be
happening
in
in
silos
,
where
the
Drivers
are
in
one
silo
and
everywhere
on
everyone
else
is
in
a
completely
different
silo
that
those
same
parks
,
those
same
benefits
should
be
offered
.
You
know
to
all
of
your
employees
and
it's
,
it's
really
baffling
as
to
why
that
wouldn't
already
be
the
case
.
I
would
,
I
,
I
would
think
that
you
know
,
from
even
like
an
HR
or
just
a
management
standpoint
,
it
would
just
make
so
much
more
sense
to
just
have
one
pay
benefits
package
and
be
able
to
offer
that
to
all
of
your
employees
,
whether
that
,
whether
or
not
they're
a
driver
or
not
.
Mike Lombard
2:19:41
Yeah
,
no
,
absolutely
Couldn't
.
Couldn't
be
more
spot-on
.
And
then
next
,
from
there
,
I
mean
,
offer
a
competitive
living
wage
to
these
people
,
like
make
.
Like
you
want
these
people
to
work
there
for
X
,
like
the
turnover
has
a
cost
,
no
matter
how
we
want
to
view
it
.
And
I've
learned
from
speaking
with
Gord
McGill
on
this
that
the
turnover
for
some
of
these
mega-carriers
has
been
ingrained
in
their
Into
their
budget
sheets
.
Like
they
count
on
the
turnover
.
They've
adjusted
their
entire
business
model
to
include
the
turnover
,
like
that's
how
much
.
They
don't
care
about
it
.
They
just
they
know
it's
a
thing
.
So
they've
adjusted
their
whole
business
model
and
how
they
price
all
things
to
include
the
turnover
.
Mike Lombard
2:20:21
Imagine
if
they
didn't
imagine
if
they
just
actually
paid
a
living
competitive
wage
.
You
know
,
to
two
people
with
things
like
PTO
,
you
know
with
you
know
with
you
know
bonus
incentives
and
not
you
know
,
and
not
referral
bonus
incentives
,
because
you
know
some
of
these
bonuses
.
This
is
crazy
.
You
know
some
of
these
,
even
the
local
carriers
.
They
were
offering
10
,
15
,
$20,000
bonuses
,
but
these
bonuses
were
paid
out
over
two
years
and
they
like
,
so
they
did
like
they're
predatory
.
You
know
these
bonuses
were
almost
predatory
to
get
people
to
sign
on
,
because
I
can't
name
any
job
that
you
can
start
at
when
you
get
a
$20,000
bonus
.
But
then
again
it's
like
you
know
,
some
people
get
promotions
where
they
get
a
bonus
,
like
that
.
But
you
know
,
just
be
upfront
with
it
with
the
pay
.
So
,
on
top
of
just
making
,
you
know
,
a
better
work
,
you
know
work
life
balance
,
it's
just
and
it
has
to
do
with
going
in
,
looking
at
the
data
,
figuring
out
Okay
,
this
is
how
we
should
schedule
our
OTR
guys
,
this
is
how
we
schedule
the
regional
guys
,
etc
.
And
then
from
there
is
when
you
move
to
pay
,
like
start
paying
a
livable
wage
,
look
we
.
Mike Lombard
2:21:21
But
pre
deregulation
and
and
I'm
not
here
to
have
the
union
argument
or
not
,
because
I
don't
think
we
can
go
backwards
,
you
know
,
and
I
come
from
a
pro-union
sentiment
I
don't
really
want
to
get
down
that
road
.
But
the
thing
is
,
before
deregulation
,
drivers
for
the
most
part
were
paid
a
salary
equivalent
six
figures
in
.
You
know
,
six
1960s
and
70s
term
,
like
Based
on
inflation
,
like
what
drivers
were
making
in
the
60s
and
70s
was
equivalent
to
six
figures
today
.
That
was
the
standard
.
So
raised
the
standard
of
that
pay
.
So
if
they
were
able
to
forward
it
in
the
70s
,
I
could
tell
you
right
now
that
Warner
Schneider
,
these
mega
Goliath
corporations
,
they
can
afford
it
now
,
like
the
large
companies
.
If
they
can
afford
it
,
then
they
can
afford
it
now
.
And
because
,
ever
,
because
,
ever
,
since
deregulation
,
I
don't
know
things
aren't
becoming
cheaper
with
the
advancement
of
technology
.
And
you
know
,
driving
down
as
the
wages
gone
,
the
wages
have
gone
down
in
the
past
.
You
know
,
several
years
in
trucking
anything
been
getting
cheaper
this
past
year
?
No
,
I
don't
think
so
.
I
think
everything's
gone
up
for
everybody
.
So
you
know
,
the
pay
is
definitely
a
good
one
.
Mike Lombard
2:22:22
And
then
,
when
you
adjust
their
scheduling
,
yeah
,
I
think
implementing
a
culture
of
health
and
wellness
and
I
this
might
piss
off
you
know
some
of
my
progressive
friends
but
get
rid
of
your
VP
of
diversity
and
inclusion
and
make
a
VP
of
health
and
wellness
,
because
that's
what
matters
more
.
You
know
,
your
VP
of
diversity
inclusion
,
yeah
,
that's
all
fun
and
dandy
,
but
that's
gonna
,
you're
gonna
get
the
diversity
inclusion
by
hiring
good
people
.
So
that's
a
different
argument
.
Replace
that
position
with
the
VP
of
health
and
wellness
and
you
know
I'm
not
saying
I'm
not
saying
go
down
and
send
somebody
.
You
know
,
have
somebody
bang
on
their
truck
and
be
like
,
hey
,
did
you
do
your
push-ups
today
.
But
,
hey
,
come
up
with
workout
programs
for
people
,
let
them
know
.
Mike Lombard
2:23:05
Hey
,
like
I'm
,
truckers
need
to
hear
the
hard
truth
.
Hey
,
this
job
is
killing
you
.
Sitting
is
the
new
smoking
and
you
know
that
.
That
needs
to
be
very
,
very
emphasized
.
You
know
a
part
at
CDL
school
on
training
?
Hey
,
this
job
is
actually
killing
you
.
It's
bad
for
your
blood
.
You
know
,
you
hear
the
stats
.
They
don't
go
over
these
stats
enough
,
and
so
I
think
implement
it
.
Make
you
like
the
culture
of
the
business
needs
to
be
surrounded
by
it
.
Like
you
want
real
people
to
get
real
results
on
their
health
and
fitness
.
You've
got
to
.
You
got
to
tell
them
the
truth
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:23:34
Well
,
speaking
of
health
and
fitness
,
that
that's
part
of
your
career
journey
as
well
as
part
of
your
,
your
personal
journey
.
What
are
some
ways
that
that
drivers
can't
like
you
and
and
others
can
stay
fit
while
out
on
the
road
?
Mike Lombard
2:23:47
Like
it's
.
You
know
,
yeah
,
I
do
work
as
an
advisor
on
on
the
first
format
,
and
I
didn't
wear
this
t-shirt
intentionally
,
I
just
put
it
on
because
I
found
it
.
But
I
,
yeah
,
I
work
as
an
advisor
to
help
guys
on
a
health
and
fitness
app
which
tracks
their
macros
your
macros
being
your
calories
,
protein
,
carbs
and
fats
and
that
varies
based
on
activity
level
,
height
,
weight
.
So
I
can't
calculate
macros
for
people
,
but
the
app
does
use
technology
and
I
help
coach
people
on
that
app
,
which
also
has
access
to
workouts
,
live
streams
,
tracks
your
steps
and
stuff
like
that
.
So
I
encourage
anybody
who
wants
,
like
,
a
help
or
,
like
you
know
,
any
sort
of
coaching
that
you
know
,
definitely
feel
free
to
come
find
me
.
I'd
love
to
help
you
out
.
Mike Lombard
2:24:25
But
all
drivers
really
need
to
do
what
they
need
to
do
to
counteract
what
they're
doing
is
,
yes
,
so
they
definitely
need
to
watch
what
they're
eating
.
You
shouldn't
be
.
You
know
,
at
least
monitor
your
calories
.
But
you
definitely
need
to
be
getting
the
right
amount
of
protein
one
gram
of
protein
per
pound
of
gold
body
weight
,
and
that
starts
by
eating
whole
meals
.
So
you
got
to
start
cooking
your
own
food
.
I
use
an
air
fryer
and
microwave
,
but
the
number
one
thing
people
can
start
doing
now
is
stop
drinking
full
sugar
Sodas
and
going
for
at
least
one
to
two
45
minute
walks
per
day
and
drinking
a
gallon
of
water
.
Mike Lombard
2:24:54
Anybody
who
is
facing
you
know
,
who
is
very
obese
,
anybody
who's
having
a
hard
time
,
maybe
pre
diabetic
if
they
start
incorporating
one
to
two
45
minute
walks
and
just
going
to
diet
soda
,
their
entire
life
will
start
changing
.
From
there
it's
guy
ruckets
.
People
don't
need
to
do
anything
crazy
.
That
it
.
But
the
thing
is
,
once
guys
start
going
for
those
walks
and
they
start
seeing
their
results
,
they're
gonna
want
more
and
they're
gonna
want
better
for
themselves
.
They're
gonna
want
to
go
,
they're
gonna
want
to
start
running
,
they're
gonna
want
to
start
bringing
out
the
bow
,
flex
weights
at
the
truck
stop
.
They're
gonna
,
like
it
burgoins
into
a
whole
bigger
thing
.
Like
,
once
you
start
making
that
progress
,
you
want
to
do
more
.
You
want
,
you
want
more
for
yourself
because
you
deserve
it
.
You
start
feeling
like
you're
worth
it
again
.
But
that's
what
they
do
.
You
didn't
need
to
start
,
just
need
to
start
.
You
know
,
instead
of
scrolling
,
you
know
you
could
scroll
while
you
walk
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:25:39
So
there
we've
talked
about
,
you
know
,
all
the
issues
that
are
going
on
within
the
industry
.
We
talked
about
a
couple
of
the
good
movements
that
are
happening
,
including
the
,
you
know
the
,
the
fitness
sort
of
revolution
.
I
think
that's
going
on
with
a
lot
of
different
drivers
.
Mark
Manera
,
another
,
you
know
,
friend
of
the
show
and
friend
of
yours
as
well
,
he
he's
he
owns
supply
chain
fitness
,
which
is
trying
to
,
you
know
,
combat
a
lot
of
those
preconceived
notions
as
well
as
to
,
you
know
,
the
importance
of
your
health
and
how
that
impacts
the
rest
of
your
life
.
And
you
know
,
your
family
,
friends
,
work
,
all
that
,
all
that
stuff
.
But
are
there
any
issues
in
trucking
that
you
know
are
kind
of
,
you
know
,
below
the
surface
right
now
that
you
think
will
become
a
bigger
issue
in
the
years
to
come
?
Mike Lombard
2:26:22
I
Think
I
briefly
kind
of
I've
alluded
to
it
Along
the
lines
,
but
definitely
parking
is
,
I
think
the
Gonna
become
the
the
biggest
one
,
especially
as
certain
major
metropolitan
areas
start
to
grow
Like
what
once
were
medium-sized
metropolitan
areas
,
austin
,
texas
being
one
.
You
know
I
live
in
central
Texas
and
this
is
where
I'm
seeing
it
.
I
actually
just
spoke
with
a
local
news
,
kxan
,
about
a
truck
parking
going
on
because
Austin
starting
to
see
it
as
an
issue
.
Even
other
places
you
know
growing
metros
like
you
know
,
raleigh
,
north
Carolina
,
charlotte
,
toledo
,
ohio
,
I
mean
set
Florida's
,
I
think
,
got
it
some
of
the
worst
.
I
did
a
truck
parking
story
with
Fox
35
a
couple
months
ago
and
Fox
35
,
you
know
,
spoke
to
you
know
Florida
DOT
about
issues
going
on
in
central
Florida
as
well
as
down
in
South
Florida
and
the
.
You
know
the
amount
of
parking
that
they're
going
to
need
,
just
based
off
the
growth
of
the
Orlando
area
and
you
know
the
amount
of
people
moving
to
Florida
yeah
.
Mike Lombard
2:27:26
Yeah
,
when
people
move
there
,
your
consumption
is
gonna
go
up
.
You're
gonna
need
,
you
know
,
the
trucks
come
with
it
.
And
I
really
think
truck
parking
is
such
an
issue
that
People
aren't
ready
for
.
And
I
know
that
there's
some
legislation
floating
around
you
know
Congress
about
allocating
money
for
Money
to
States
from
the
DOT
for
truck
parking
and
I
know
that
the
sec
current
secretary
of
transportation
has
Definitely
echoed
the
concern
for
it
.
So
maybe
it's
not
like
it's
so
much
under
the
radar
.
But
the
thing
is
it's
,
it's
,
it's
an
issue
that's
.
Mike Lombard
2:28:01
They
knew
this
was
going
to
be
an
issue
in
the
90s
.
You
know
office
studies
done
in
1994
or
1996
.
They've
known
this
is
gonna
be
an
issue
for
a
long
period
of
time
.
It's
coming
to
roost
now
because
what
we're
seeing
is
now
the
fatalities
are
happening
,
cars
are
hitting
trucks
on
on
off-ramps
that
are
parked
there
,
the
truck
parking
adds
to
the
,
to
the
turnover
and
a
lot
of
this
could
be
alleviated
.
Actually
,
a
lot
of
the
truck
parking
issues
Can
be
alleviated
if
the
ELD
mandate
was
repealed
,
because
the
the
yield
,
the
implementation
of
the
ELD
.
Now
All
science
and
research
shows
that
when
you
add
stress
to
the
workplace
it
affects
workplace
safety
,
no
matter
what
,
when
,
when
something
has
been
added
.
Mike Lombard
2:28:41
You
know
like
,
you
know
,
added
stress
to
your
job
.
It
doesn't
make
things
more
safe
,
you
know
.
So
adding
the
ELD
you
know
mandate
to
it
and
requiring
ELDs
for
people
is
an
added
stress
level
which
has
created
more
tired
drivers
,
more
aggravated
drivers
and
drivers
making
riskier
decisions
.
The
FMC
SA
Personally
and
intentionally
added
stress
to
the
industry
,
making
the
industry
less
safe
,
and
the
fact
that
that
narrative
isn't
seen
by
people
is
frightening
.
Like
our
own
government
implemented
something
which
data
now
says
has
made
the
industry
less
safe
and
more
people
have
died
because
of
it
,
and
we're
just
gonna
keep
letting
it
fly
.
And
so
you
know
,
I'd
say
you
know
,
truck
parking
is
an
issue
.
Is
that
underlying
issue
I'm
talking
about
?
But
it
can
be
solved
in
more
ways
than
one
by
not
you
know
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:29:30
So
it's
not
just
more
spaces
,
it's
,
it's
more
.
Just
what
is
it
?
Once
?
Mike Lombard
2:29:35
again
change
the
workplace
environment
and
the
scheduling
for
these
drivers
and
how
they
can
drive
.
If
they
weren't
be
ridden
to
this
electronic
log
and
they
were
running
a
certain
schedule
to
where
,
finding
parking
Wasn't
that
much
of
an
issue
,
depending
on
how
they
were
routed
,
as
in
hey
,
they
can
sleep
at
shippers
and
receivers
,
or
they
can
sleep
it
or
they're
being
routed
towards
their
terminals
more
like
so
.
It's
just
not
a
matter
of
spaces
.
Hey
,
let's
remove
some
of
the
you
know
Surveillance
technology
like
the
ELD
mandate
,
so
that
way
when
they
have
a
half
an
hour
left
on
their
clock
and
they
find
themselves
In
having
to
go
through
Austin
,
they
don't
have
to
worry
.
You
know
,
don't
have
to
worry
about
that
30
minutes
running
out
,
having
to
have
a
DOT
violation
.
Mike Lombard
2:30:17
So
I
mean
,
there's
a
lot
of
different
ways
you
can
attack
the
parking
issue
,
but
at
the
you
know
it's
,
it's
the
one
issue
that
not
only
is
adding
to
the
turnover
,
it's
also
,
once
again
,
the
consumer
.
The
other
highway
users
out
there
are
at
risk
because
of
,
you
know
,
the
lack
of
truck
parking
.
But
other
other
underlying
issues
you
know
,
I'm
sure
there
are
.
I
can't
,
I
can't
rail
off
at
the
top
of
my
head
because
pay
and
park
,
because
that's
the
thing
.
It's
a
spider
web
.
You
know
they're
parking
or
like
the
two
,
you
know
Two
nucleuses
or
whatever
,
and
then
there's
other
stuff
that
goes
out
from
there
.
I
think
I
know
that
there's
a
lot
of
fraud
going
on
right
now
and
I
,
like
I
said
,
you
know
we
can
get
into
the
Eastern
European
Mafias
who
operate
.
You
know
there's
Chicago
operations
.
There's
a
lot
going
on
with
the
.
You
know
I
recently
spoke
with
the
president
of
real
women
in
trucking
,
which
you
have
spoken
to
as
well
as
a
very
would
as
very
would
.
Mike Lombard
2:31:09
Yeah
,
and
she
helps
with
an
organization
that
has
helped
drivers
who've
been
abandoned
because
of
these
ghost
log
Problems
.
And
there
are
a
lot
of
these
Eastern
European
outfits
who
run
motor
carriers
with
their
own
ELD
technology
that
they're
able
to
Kind
of
hack
into
and
they're
able
to
falsify
logs
to
keep
these
trucks
running
.
And
and
I
get
you
know
,
there's
probably
Some
libertarians
in
the
crowd
who
cheer
,
cheer
for
that
and
yeah
,
and
even
the
,
even
though
obviously
nobody
would
ever
know
.
You
know
,
people
don't
want
to
drive
20
hours
a
day
,
that's
not
,
that's
not
the
point
.
But
you
know
they
falsify
these
logs
and
what's
happened
is
they've
sent
drivers
out
.
When
these
drivers
are
sleeping
or
staying
in
hotels
,
somebody
comes
and
steals
the
truck
or
what
have
you
,
and
takes
it
from
under
them
and
they
and
they
don't
pay
them
.
So
I
mean
,
there
there
is
a
lot
of
other
underlying
issues
,
like
some
of
these
Eastern
European
syndicates
who
are
running
,
very
,
you
know
,
running
these
motor
carriers
that
are
operating
,
you
know
,
outside
of
the
rules
and
regulations
.
Mike Lombard
2:32:08
Brokering
to
and
the
fraud
of
double
brokering
that's
going
on
in
all
these
different
countries
like
Ukraine
,
and
so
it's
that
that's
definitely
even
that's
not
a
macro
point
.
You
know
I'm
speaking
for
driver
issues
for
the
most
part
,
but
industry-wide
I
mean
the
fraud
and
crime
between
.
What's
going
on
with
double
brokering
is
just
another
cost
being
rolled
onto
consumers
.
We're
like
the
fact
that
it's
not
the
fact
.
That
is
like
we're
talking
in
the
news
about
target
,
bud
Light
and
you
know
Rainbow
t-shirts
and
not
the
fact
the
American
people
are
getting
ripped
off
by
Eastern
European
crime
syndicates
Taking
control
of
our
own
supply
chain
.
Like
,
what
do
you
think
is
more
important
target
selling
a
rainbow
t-shirt
or
in
Bud
Light
or
the
fact
that
our
supply
chain
is
being
compromised
by
Chinese
technology
companies
in
Eastern
European
crime
syndicates
?
What's
the
better
headline
for
?
Blythe Brumleve
2:33:01
Well
,
those
,
those
topics
are
too
complex
for
I
think
the
idea
,
or
it's
perceived
as
too
Complex
.
They
would
rather
just
keep
us
and
when
I
say
they
,
I
mean
like
the
,
you
know
,
intelligence
agencies
,
big
corporations
,
the
government
,
things
like
that
they
would
rather
keep
us
in
fighting
with
each
other
rather
than
trying
to
tackle
a
big
problem
that
they
are
Not
incentivized
to
solve
,
which
kind
of
feels
like
a
big
theme
of
this
show
is
that
there
there
are
many
problems
that
exist
in
this
industry
and
Very
few
incentives
to
actually
solve
them
,
unless
you're
actually
running
a
good
moral
compass
of
a
company
that
wants
to
treat
people
with
respect
and
wants
to
.
You
know
,
stick
around
for
a
while
.
That
,
to
me
,
is
,
you
know
,
the
latter
is
,
is
is
the
more
of
the
American
dream
versus
the
former
.
Mike Lombard
2:33:46
Yeah
,
now
it
is
.
It
is
pretty
wild
and
I
do
like
how
you
refer
to
them
as
they
,
because
I
mean
,
that's
,
that's
the
truth
.
They
want
and
they're
doing
.
It's
these
.
Mike Lombard
2:33:54
Everything
going
on
in
the
trucking
industry
is
mirrored
to
what's
going
on
and
you
know
,
with
our
politics
,
that
the
ATA
and
the
mega
carriers
want
to
keep
drivers
Divided
.
They
don't
want
them
agree
because
drivers
can't
even
agree
.
When
it
comes
to
this
overtime
for
truckers
act
,
drivers
are
like
well
,
well
,
I'm
not
paid
by
the
hour
,
I'm
not
paid
by
.
Like
they
don't
see
the
bigger
picture
,
like
they've
gotten
truckers
so
divided
.
Drivers
can't
even
agree
to
give
themselves
a
pay
raise
.
Like
that's
,
that's
where
they're
at
.
And
our
media
and
Our
politics
is
doing
the
same
thing
.
They
want
to
keep
us
.
They
know
that
the
American
people
,
you
know
We've
sold
all
our
manufacturing
overseas
,
we've
sold
our
purpose
.
We're
now
this
information
and
service
,
this
information
and
service
economy
,
to
where
they're
able
to
control
us
via
the
culture
wars
.
So
,
people
on
their
own
lives
,
they
kind
of
they're
not
building
things
for
themselves
,
they're
not
building
things
for
their
communities
anymore
.
So
they
have
to
lay
a
stake
in
identity
politics
because
this
is
how
they
know
.
Well
,
if
I
support
this
ideology
that
I'm
actually
helping
the
world
,
I'm
actually
helping
my
community
.
If
I
stand
up
for
this
,
then
I'm
defending
,
you
know
,
I'm
defending
these
,
these
people
,
all
the
while
they're
staying
divided
.
Mike Lombard
2:34:59
Well
,
the
people
at
the
very
top
Maintain
control
of
anything
and
in
the
meantime
also
,
what's
going
on
is
,
yeah
,
our
supply
chain
is
in
the
midst
of
,
you
know
,
being
compromised
,
because
even
in
that
,
when
we
go
even
further
into
the
AI
step
of
things
you
know
we
just
had
a
pipeline
get
hacked
recently
Like
,
are
we
gonna
keep
the
public
blind
to
the
fact
that
eventually
,
when
you
take
the
drivers
out
,
we're
gonna
think
that
China
or
Russia
isn't
gonna
figure
out
the
means
to
send
it
,
send
it
?
You
know
the
next
9-11
isn't
gonna
you
won't
need
pilots
,
you
know
.
You
,
when
you've
got
autonomous
,
you
know
trucks
and
doing
whatever
,
you
know
you're
not
gonna
,
you're
not
gonna
need
it
.
And
when
you
can
control
the
,
the
supply
chain
,
you
know
where
are
we
running
ourselves
at
that
risk
?
But
,
yeah
,
no
,
the
meat
,
you
,
they
.
Mike Lombard
2:35:37
There's
definitely
a
,
you
know
a
syndicate
in
this
country
that
wants
peaked
to
keep
people
divided
.
They're
doing
it
in
the
truck
industry
.
That's
why
I
feel
like
,
if
you
can
,
if
I
can
,
if
we
can
fight
for
these
issues
and
we
keep
talking
to
them
in
this
,
in
the
trucking
industry
,
like
it's
just
,
it's
one
crack
in
the
seams
.
It's
it's
,
you
know
,
because
the
transportation
industry
is
a
micro
version
of
everything
we're
talking
about
with
the
media
,
and
if
we
could
solve
the
problems
here
,
maybe
,
you
know
,
maybe
that
positivity
and
Stuff
can
spread
to
all
the
other
stuff
we're
talking
about
society
and
the
media
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:36:09
Now
for
you
.
I
was
doing
some
research
,
going
through
your
websites
and
watched
a
few
of
your
videos
,
and
what's
I
think
is
super
interesting
about
you
know
just
the
freight
industry
in
general
is
that
they
either
get
their
tentacles
in
you
from
an
early
age
and
you
never
leave
,
or
it's
a
family
affair
that
gets
their
tentacles
in
you
and
they
keep
you
there
,
and
I
think
you're
kind
of
a
blend
of
the
two
.
Is
that
correct
?
Tell
us
how
you
got
started
in
trucking
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:36:37
Yeah
,
so
I'm
third
generation
in
trucking
.
My
grandfather
was
an
owner
operator
for
one
of
the
big
van
lines
out
of
Ohio
and
Michigan
,
when
the
seat
in
the
truck
was
a
wooden
bench
and
a
trip
to
the
West
Coast
was
measured
in
weeks
,
not
days
or
hours
.
There
were
no
interstates
,
there
were
no
truck
stops
.
It
was
just
a
crazy
time
.
I
don't
know
a
whole
lot
about
my
grandfather's
operation
.
He
died
when
I
was
still
pretty
young
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:37:07
My
father
actually
started
driving
a
milk
truck
when
he
was
14
,
obviously
with
no
license
,
and
that's
all
he
did
.
His
whole
life
he
drove
truck
,
and
he
retired
and
died
driving
a
truck
.
You
know
what
?
I
think
a
lot
of
what
drives
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:37:22
What
I
do
today
,
though
,
is
I
watched
my
dad's
struggle
,
really
his
whole
life
.
He
wanted
to
own
trucks
because
he
loved
working
on
trucks
.
He
had
a
ninth
grade
education
and
no
business
experience
,
and
I
just
watched
the
pattern
where
he
would
go
,
take
a
driving
job
that
he
usually
hated
,
with
a
union
and
,
but
it
paid
well
.
So
he'd
make
enough
money
and
he'd
save
up
and
he'd
buy
a
truck
and
he'd
work
on
it
,
and
then
he'd
run
it
until
he
just
ran
out
of
money
and
he'd
go
back
and
get
another
union
job
again
.
And
I
just
watched
that
and
thought
there's
got
to
be
a
better
way
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:37:59
Then
decided
that
I
wasn't
going
to
get
into
trucking
.
I
thought
I
wanted
to
fly
helicopters
.
So
I
went
to
the
army
and
decided
I
really
didn't
want
to
spend
10
years
in
the
army
either
.
So
I
got
out
and
thought
while
I'm
trying
to
figure
out
what
to
do
with
my
life
,
why
don't
I
buy
a
truck
?
Because
you
know
,
everybody
around
me
has
trucks
.
At
one
point
my
father
,
four
brothers
,
two
brother-in-laws
,
an
uncle
all
own
trucks
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:38:26
Oh
,
wow
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:38:27
Yeah
and
it
just
seemed
like
why
not
do
this
?
So
I
bought
a
truck
.
I've
done
a
lot
of
things
in
the
trucking
industry
.
That
would
have
been
1986
.
I
bought
my
first
truck
,
so
I
was
22
.
The
only
thing
or
not
the
only
thing
,
one
of
the
things
I
haven't
done
I've
never
been
a
company
driver
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:38:49
I
started
as
an
owner
operator
.
I
just
bought
a
truck
and
went
to
work
and
at
one
point
I
had
11
trucks
.
That
took
me
about
three
years
and
it
was
way
too
fast
.
I
made
every
mistake
you
could
possibly
make
and
at
the
end
I
was
about
60
or
$70,000
in
debt
with
taxes
and
maintenance
bills
.
And
you
know
I
had
several
attorneys
say
this
is
what
bankruptcy
is
for
.
And
I
said
you
know
I
made
the
mess
,
I
should
probably
try
to
clean
it
up
.
So
I
sold
nine
of
the
11
trucks
,
took
the
two
that
were
most
profitable
and
really
started
to
learn
how
to
run
a
truck
profitably
.
You
know
,
really
started
to
get
into
the
accounting
side
of
things
and
tracking
things
by
numbers
and
watching
fuel
mileage
.
And
you
know
,
at
the
time
fuel
was
probably
80
cents
a
gallon
and
nobody
cared
about
fuel
economy
.
But
it
just
seemed
to
me
like
if
there
was
a
way
to
save
.
I
should
probably
learn
it
and
got
really
involved
in
that
side
of
things
,
and
ultimately
that's
what
led
me
to
where
I
am
today
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:39:58
Now
you
mentioned
,
you
know
,
two
of
your
11
trucks
were
only
profitable
.
What
made
the
two
profitable
when
the
rest
weren't
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:40:06
Really
at
the
time
it
was
my
lack
of
experience
in
the
market
.
So
the
two
that
were
profitable
were
actually
least
to
.
It
was
RPS
at
the
time
,
which
is
FedEx
Ground
today
,
so
they
were
dedicated
.
It
was
easy
to
control
the
expenses
,
I
didn't
have
driver
turnover
,
I
was
able
to
control
my
costs
better
and
the
other
trucks
I
had
gotten
my
own
authority
and
a
broker's
license
and
it
just
didn't
understand
the
freight
markets
and
it's
one
of
the
reasons
why
I
try
to
help
people
understand
the
markets
today
.
If
you're
going
to
be
out
there
running
with
your
own
authority
,
it's
critical
to
understand
those
things
,
and
I
just
didn't
.
And
you
know
it
seemed
like
just
add
another
truck
,
keep
driving
more
miles
.
This
has
got
to
work
and
it
didn't
.
I
was
just
.
I
was
losing
more
money
all
the
time
and
I
realized
that
the
first
step
in
being
successful
in
business
is
you've
got
to
control
your
cost
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:41:05
That's
such
a
good
,
insightful
story
,
and
so
do
you
still
have
those
trucks
to
this
day
,
or
did
you
eventually
sell
them
off
to
start
let's
Truck
,
which
we'll
get
into
in
just
a
second
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:41:14
Yeah
.
So
when
I
had
those
trucks
all
that
time
did
several
different
things
,
I
ultimately
ended
up
sticking
with
the
contract
at
FedEx
and
adding
some
trucks
there
.
And
then
in
2007
,
when
I
got
a
chance
to
do
my
own
radio
show
on
would
have
been
XM
.
At
the
time
I
thought
I
can
do
a
radio
show
and
run
the
trucks
and
that'll
be
fine
.
And
then
I
started
a
software
company
and
we
started
creating
software
for
owner
operators
and
by
about
2012
,
I
was
traveling
all
over
the
country
.
I
really
wasn't
taking
care
of
the
trucks
and
you
know
what
.
They
kind
of
took
care
of
itself
,
but
I
just
didn't
feel
like
that
was
a
good
way
to
run
a
business
.
So
one
of
the
other
contractors
at
FedEx
made
me
an
offer
for
the
whole
contract
trucks
and
everything
and
it
was
pretty
darn
good
offer
.
So
I
sold
in
2012
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:42:08
And
so
that
evolved
.
How
did
you
go
from
running
some
FedEx
trucks
to
getting
offered
a
radio
hosting
job
,
especially
with
a
company
that
big
yeah
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:42:19
So
we'd
go
all
the
way
back
to
about
1990
.
One
of
the
first
years
I
had
my
tax
return
done
and
in
my
head
I
thought
I
should
have
owed
about
four
or
5,000
,
but
I
didn't
understand
taxes
.
So
when
the
bill
came
in
at
14,000
and
I
didn't
have
that
money
,
I
ended
up
on
a
payment
plan
like
a
lot
of
owner
operators
do
,
and
I
started
looking
at
it
,
thinking
I'm
just
going
to
get
behind
every
year
.
I've
got
to
get
a
handle
on
this
.
So
I
actually
started
learning
taxes
.
I
kind
of
self-taught
and
figured
out
that
my
bill
shouldn't
have
been
14,000
.
It
was
more
like
five
or
six
and
filed
amended
returns
and
started
telling
my
friends
and
they
said
well
,
will
you
look
at
my
tax
return
?
And
I
did
.
And
the
next
day
I
knew
I
had
an
accounting
company
.
So
at
one
point
I
was
doing
about
4,000
owner
operators
for
accounting
and
taxes
.
So
I
wrote
accounting
software
which
we
actually
sell
today
for
owner
operators
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:43:22
So
now
that
I
had
this
other
business
I
needed
to
figure
out
how
I
was
going
to
get
customers
.
I
had
friends
,
but
if
you're
going
to
run
it
as
a
business
,
then
you
got
to
grow
it
.
So
I
didn't
have
any
money
.
So
I
started
writing
articles
about
taxes
and
just
faxing
them
out
to
all
of
the
trucking
magazines
and
one
of
them
picked
it
up
and
said
we
can't
pay
you
,
but
if
you
write
a
column
we'll
give
you
a
full
page
at
every
month
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:43:48
So
I
started
writing
the
column
and
actually
my
first
time
on
the
radio
was
midnight
trucking
.
I
got
to
go
on
at
like
3.30
in
the
morning
for
10
minutes
.
That
was
fun
.
And
then
Dave
Nemo
actually
called
me
one
day
and
said
I
read
your
column
and
I'd
loved
you
to
come
on
the
air
and
talk
about
it
.
And
that
turned
into
a
weekly
thing
.
And
at
one
point
I
was
doing
three
guest
spots
every
week
.
I
was
doing
a
guest
spot
on
midnight
trucking
,
on
Dave
Nemo
and
on
Mark
Willis
.
And
finally
I
went
to
XM
and
I
said
look
,
I
might
be
doing
more
hours
than
some
of
your
hosts
.
Maybe
you
should
just
give
me
a
show
.
And
they
did
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:44:32
Oh
wow
,
you
shot
,
your
shot
and
you
won
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:44:35
Yeah
,
I
asked
and
they
said
okay
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:44:38
That's
awesome
,
so
okay
,
so
you
had
the
couple
of
trucks
.
You
sold
those
off
.
You
get
into
radio
broadcasting
.
You're
also
doing
software
development
.
Now
are
you
coding
this
yourself
,
or
do
you
have
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:44:50
a
team
no
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:44:50
I
didn't
do
any
of
the
real
coding
in
the
beginning
.
But
I
,
you
know
,
I
found
a
database
program
where
you
could
kind
of
build
some
things
with
it
and
I
built
the
software
and
I
was
actually
selling
it
.
I
mean
,
I
had
some
customers
out
there
and
I
thought
and
this
would
have
been
mid
90s
,
probably
late
90s
,
and
I
really
started
looking
at
the
internet
and
thinking
software
is
going
to
all
run
on
the
internet
someday
.
And
I
have
no
idea
what
I'm
doing
.
And
again
,
I
still
didn't
have
a
whole
lot
of
money
.
So
I
went
out
and
found
a
young
coder
who
was
broke
and
needed
a
job
and
I
offered
him
part
of
the
business
and
we
made
him
a
partner
and
he's
still
one
of
our
partners
today
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:45:35
What
a
great
story
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:45:37
Yeah
,
I
did
kind
of
the
design
and
layout
of
a
lot
of
the
software
and
ultimately
I
don't
even
do
any
of
that
anymore
.
He's
so
much
better
at
it
than
I
am
.
So
we
have
a
team
now
that
does
all
that
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:45:48
And
so
you
develop
.
Is
that
where
let's
Truck
comes
in
?
Is
that
the
app
business
,
the
accounting
business
,
or
does
let's
Truck
come
in
after
that
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:45:58
So
we
formed
let's
Truck
then
.
So
right
around
2007
,
when
we
started
doing
the
radio
show
,
started
to
really
develop
the
software
.
That's
when
we
formed
let's
Truck
,
brought
our
partner
in
and
we've
just
kind
of
grown
from
there
.
You
know
,
I
guess
our
mission
statement
is
helping
drivers
and
owner
operators
live
their
best
life
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:46:20
And
I
think
that
that's
where
I
was
looking
at
your
site
.
And
so
there's
fuel
gauges
,
there's
profit
gauges
,
and
so
all
of
it
kind
of
fits
into
.
Is
it
all
one
app
,
or
are
they
different
functions
?
For
you
know
,
I
guess
,
different
motives
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:46:36
Yeah
,
so
fuel
gauges
is
its
own
app
and
that
one's
free
.
We've
been
giving
away
fuel
gauges
for
over
a
decade
,
so
that
one
is
to
track
fuel
mileage
,
so
they
can
track
every
tank
.
It
will
show
them
a
30
day
average
,
a
60
day
,
a
90
,
a
lifetime
.
It'll
show
them
cost
per
mile
on
fuel
a
lot
of
statistics
,
and
we
now
have
over
100,000
trucks
using
that
app
and
we're
coming
up
on
6
million
fuel
tickets
in
the
system
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:47:07
Wow
,
that's
great
.
That's
awesome
.
Oh
,
that's
so
.
I'm
like
blowing
away
right
now
,
because
you've
done
all
these
amazing
things
and
we
just
started
talking
about
less
truck
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:47:19
Then
the
crazy
transformation
really
happened
around
2014
.
We
had
always
been
business
,
accounting
,
fuel
mileage
,
taxes
,
consulting
and
some
of
our
drivers
started
saying
,
look
,
we
really
trust
you
,
you've
helped
us
with
our
money
and
our
business
and
we
need
help
with
health
.
Drivers
are
really
sick
and
there
doesn't
seem
to
be
a
lot
of
good
advice
.
And
I
said
but
I
don't
do
health
.
They
said
but
you
know
and
I
had
always
talked
about
my
history
and
my
past
on
the
radio
show
my
first
business
was
a
gym
when
I
was
19,
.
I
opened
a
gym
.
I
coached
wrestling
,
high
school
wrestling
and
club
wrestling
for
a
lot
of
years
.
So
they
said
,
well
,
you're
kind
of
into
fitness
and
you
understand
that
anything
would
help
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:48:06
And
I
said
,
well
,
I
really
don't
want
to
try
to
give
advice
on
something
that
I
just
don't
think
I'm
capable
of
giving
.
So
one
of
our
employees
said
you
know
,
why
don't
I
get
it
started
?
She
started
a
podcast
and
,
you
know
,
let's
just
see
what
happens
.
So
I
said
,
all
right
,
I'll
get
involved
.
After
I
read
100
of
the
top
new
health
books
that
are
out
right
now
,
I'll
give
myself
a
year
and
then
we'll
see
.
So
I
finished
100
books
in
about
eight
months
and
went
back
to
school
and
became
a
nutritional
therapy
practitioner
and
we
started
down
the
health
path
and
now
it's
about
80%
of
our
business
.
Wow
,
it
really
just
took
over
everything
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:48:53
And
so
that
I
mean
,
you're
obviously
providing
,
you
know
,
financial
advice
on
one
side
of
things
,
but
now
,
on
the
flip
side
,
it's
really
that
your
community
coming
to
you
and
saying
you
need
this
and
you
made
it
happen
,
and
now
it's
grown
to
where
it
is
today
.
What
was
,
I
guess
,
how
?
I
guess
my
first
question
is
you
know
,
when
drivers
decide
that
they
want
to
start
being
healthy
,
what
does
that
process
look
like
for
them
?
Because
I
imagine
it's
so
challenging
on
the
road
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:49:21
You
know
it
was
in
the
beginning
.
We've
actually
made
it
really
easy
now
In
the
beginning
,
so
we
teach
them
about
nutrition
.
The
interesting
thing
is
,
most
of
these
guys
have
been
told
forever
that
you're
going
to
have
to
be
hungry
all
the
time
and
you're
going
to
have
to
work
out
and
that's
the
only
way
to
lose
weight
.
And
we
found
out
that
just
wasn't
true
.
We
actually
tell
people
right
now
I
can
get
you
to
your
natural
body
weight
with
zero
activity
.
It's
not
required
at
all
.
Now
we
encourage
people
to
be
active
because
it's
healthy
,
but
exercise
is
not
good
for
weight
loss
.
It
just
isn't
.
It
turns
most
people
off
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:50:03
And
think
about
the
industry
we're
in
.
Some
of
these
guys
are
350
,
400
pounds
.
We've
worked
with
people
that
are
bigger
than
that
.
The
last
thing
that
guy
wants
to
do
is
work
out
.
He's
not
capable
of
it
.
So
we
just
took
a
really
,
really
different
approach
.
We
work
with
a
lot
of
the
newer
science
,
like
carnivore
and
keto
,
and
we've
actually
made
it
fairly
simple
on
the
road
.
But
imagine
this
imagine
a
conversation
with
truck
drivers
where
you're
teaching
them
how
to
ferment
vegetables
and
make
yogurt
and
can
their
own
meals
at
home
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:50:40
Oh
wow
.
So
they're
doing
that
at
home
and
crux
for
their
road
trip
.
So
it's
not
about
you
know
.
I've
heard
you
know
some
other
folks
in
health
that
they'll
say
you
know
,
these
are
the
healthiest
things
to
eat
at
a
gas
station
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:50:52
There
are
no
healthy
things
to
eat
at
a
gas
station
.
Let's
just
start
there
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:50:57
Not
even
the
hot
dog
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:50:59
You
know
,
the
hot
dog
may
be
the
healthiest
thing
there
,
but
we
want
to
go
a
little
.
You
know
,
we
actually
teach
them
how
to
find
local
farms
that
are
doing
really
regenerative
,
grass-fed
pastured
meats
and
chicken
and
pork
and
you
know
we
work
with
some
of
the
top
regenerative
farms
in
the
country
Joel
Salatons
like
a
regular
guest
on
our
show
so
and
we
actually
teach
them
how
to
get
the
best
quality
meat
they
can
and
pressure
candidate
at
home
.
They
can
take
it
with
them
and
it
doesn't
need
refrigeration
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:51:33
Wow
,
and
so
that
was
going
to
be
my
next
question
is
what
does
,
I
guess
,
the
truck
outfit
kind
of
look
like
to
keep
you
know
that
food
ready
,
readily
available
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:51:43
That's
their
biggest
challenge
.
You
know
they
can't
do
a
lot
of
shopping
on
the
road
.
They're
just
not
practical
with
their
schedule
and
the
size
of
the
vehicle
.
So
they
really
need
to
do
as
much
prep
at
home
as
possible
and
we've
shown
guys
where
one
weekend
you
could
can
and
ferment
enough
food
for
an
entire
month
.
Adam Wingfield
2:52:00
Oh
,
wow
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:52:01
And
that's
all
.
Shelf
stable
now
,
fermented
or
canned
.
It
doesn't
need
refrigeration
.
So
you
know
they
can
just
take
that
food
with
them
on
the
truck
and
they
can
take
,
you
know
,
a
couple
of
weeks
worth
at
a
time
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:52:12
And
I
imagine
to
I
follow
a
lot
of
like
.
One
of
my
favorite
shows
is
Doomsday
Preppers
.
Oh
yeah
,
so
I
imagine
that
a
lot
of
those
same
philosophies
matter
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:52:20
It's
.
I've
been
called
a
prepper
and
because
I
do
that
kind
of
stuff
,
but
it
just
it's
so
practical
.
You
know
I
love
to
cook
.
I
we
almost
never
eat
out
.
I
just
I
don't
like
the
quality
of
eating
out
,
so
I
do
a
lot
of
canning
at
home
just
for
convenience
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:52:38
Oh
,
that's
super
interesting
.
Okay
,
so
what
are
your
favorite
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:52:43
prepper
tips
,
pressure
key
,
and
your
meat
and
your
meals
.
Number
one
.
You
think
about
it
.
What's
the
biggest
problem
?
We're
going
to
be
hungry
,
right
,
and
there's
survival
going
on
and
the
world's
going
to
change
and
I
imagine
just
being
able
to
open
up
your
jar
of
your
favorite
meal
,
already
cooked
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:53:00
And
then
,
how
do
you
get
more
of
it
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:53:04
You
,
you
got
to
hunt
and
fish
and
seriously
,
with
a
reasonable
amount
of
space
at
home
,
though
it
doesn't
take
a
lot
.
I've
shown
people
how
,
over
time
,
you
could
.
You
could
key
in
enough
food
to
last
you
a
year
.
Wow
,
and
that's
usually
my
goal
.
Try
to
get
a
year's
worth
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:53:20
And
so
that's
where
you
got
to
.
You
got
to
think
about
next
I'm
all
,
I'm
all
thinking
about
.
You
know
all
the
different
doomsday
prepper
shows
.
Mike Lombard
2:53:26
I've
seen
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:53:27
I
was
like
well
,
you
got
to
have
a
way
to
protect
it
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:53:29
You
got
to
have
your
fuel
supply
Of
course
,
right
,
I
know
there's
a
lot
to
it
.
We
actually
we
have
episodes
on
my
show
where
we
talk
about
that
stuff
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:53:36
Oh
my
gosh
,
I'm
going
to
say
,
okay
,
I
got
to
dive
deeper
now
into
this
show
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:53:39
Think
about
it
for
a
second
.
So
you
know
a
good
water
filter
,
like
a
life
straw
,
the
emergency
clothes
,
you
know
thermal
blankets
,
all
of
that
stuff
that
you
would
kind
of
prep
at
home
with
.
We
tell
people
you
better
have
that
in
your
truck
,
why
wouldn't
you
?
Blythe Brumleve
2:53:57
That's
a
good
point
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:53:58
And
cash
.
You
know
,
it
got
so
easy
to
drive
around
with
no
cash
because
everybody
accepts
credit
cards
.
And
what
about
when
the
banking
system
goes
down
?
It's
already
happened
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:54:09
That's
very
true
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:54:10
And
if
you
have
no
access
to
cash
and
you're
a
thousand
miles
away
from
home
,
what
are
you
going
to
do
?
So
we
do
kind
of
that
prepping
in
the
truck
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:54:20
And
so
are
they
able
to
prep
at
all
in
the
truck
,
or
you're
mostly
just
prepping
at
home
and
taking
it
with
you
along
with
,
you
know
,
miscellaneous
supplies
.
It's
like
in
a
bug
out
bag
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:54:30
Mostly
at
home
,
and
then
kind
of
stocking
the
truck
with
all
that
stuff
like
a
get
home
bag
or
a
bug
out
bag
.
Or
we
do
have
a
couple
of
husband
and
wife
teams
that
spend
so
much
time
on
the
road
that
they've
just
started
to
prep
on
the
road
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:54:43
Oh
,
wow
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:54:44
Yeah
,
they've
just
kind
of
,
you
know
,
supplied
themselves
with
the
stuff
in
the
truck
and
they'll
stop
and
maybe
get
a
hotel
for
the
weekend
or
an
Airbnb
and
do
their
prep
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:54:53
And
so
when
you're
canning
,
is
it
,
you
know
,
are
you
using
like
an
Instapod
or
,
you
know
,
I
guess
,
like
a
pressurized
,
another
type
of
pressurized
cooker
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:55:02
Yeah
,
so
it's
called
an
all
American
.
Actually
it's
a
pressure
canner
.
So
there
are
pressure
cookers
and
then
there
are
pressure
key
inners
and
a
pressure
canner
can
pressure
cook
,
but
a
pressure
cooker
can't
pressure
can
.
Oh
,
okay
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:55:20
I'm
just
going
to
start
writing
down
all
of
these
things
.
So
if
you
see
my
hand
moving
off
to
the
side
,
that's
what
I'm
writing
down
because
I
everybody
laughed
at
me
when
I
had
a
.
I
was
obsessed
with
the
Doomsday
Preppers
show
.
I
started
.
I
got
a
bug
out
bag
.
I
started
.
I
have
a
life
straw
in
it
.
I've
knives
,
fuel
like
all
that
water
shoes
,
I
even
.
I
went
to
a
trade
show
one
time
.
They
have
those
little
capsules
that
you
that'll
sustain
you
for
about
12
hours
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:55:42
Oh
,
yeah
,
yeah
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:55:45
They
thought
I
was
crazy
,
and
then
COVID
happened
.
I
said
no
,
I'm
not
so
crazy
anymore
,
am
I
?
Kevin Rutherford
2:55:49
Well
,
you
know
,
it's
surprising
how
acceptable
it
became
after
COVID
,
when
we
saw
lockdowns
and
we
saw
no
access
to
services
and
we
started
to
hear
about
food
shortages
and
I
think
a
lot
of
people
you
know
kind
of
woke
up
and
said
,
look
,
it
could
happen
here
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:56:07
And
then
and
you
have
also
the
couple
of
that
with
the
show
the
last
of
us
,
which
just
further
cemented
all
of
my
prep
,
I
was
like
well
,
see
,
this
is
,
this
is
what
happens
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:56:19
But
didn't
it
feel
good
when
you
did
prep
a
little
?
Blythe Brumleve
2:56:21
It
did
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:56:22
Doesn't
it
?
It
just
feel
good
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:56:24
I
you
know
,
as
,
as
you're
talking
like
I
have
a
,
a
post-it
note
,
all
of
my
tests
right
now
,
things
I
need
to
add
to
my
bugle
bag
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:56:33
There
you
go
.
Drop
me
an
email
if
you
ever
have
any
questions
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:56:36
Oh
,
I
will
be
.
You're
probably
going
to
regret
that
.
All
right
,
Let
let's
get
back
to
the
the
let's
Truck
website
too
,
because
I
did
notice
on
there
you
have
a
full
e-commerce
store
as
well
,
with
a
lot
of
these
,
these
healthier
style
goods
and
shakes
and
things
like
that
.
Talk
to
us
a
little
bit
about
that
,
that
initiative
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:56:54
So
,
you
know
,
I
really
started
to
realize
that
each
product
was
unique
,
and
I'm
just
a
big
believer
in
finding
the
best
solution
for
anything
.
If
there's
a
problem
and
we
need
a
solution
,
well
why
not
find
the
best
solution
?
And
that's
kind
of
what
I
do
.
I'm
known
for
research
and
testing
,
and
there
was
one
day
I
went
on
the
air
Actually
I
did
a
webinar
,
so
I
was
on
camera
like
this
and
I
had
on
five
wearables
I
had
.
I
had
two
watches
no
,
I
had
six
.
I
had
two
watches
on
each
arm
,
wearables
like
the
health
wearables
.
I
had
an
aura
ring
and
I
had
a
headband
kind
of
wearable
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:57:37
That's
what
I
do
I
test
,
I
really
try
to
find
the
best
solutions
for
things
.
And
then
it
was
getting
really
confusing
for
me
to
come
on
the
air
and
say
,
oh
,
you
know
,
I
did
all
this
test
and
I
found
out
this
is
the
absolute
best
sauna
blanket
on
the
market
.
And
then
people
would
go
end
up
at
the
wrong
website
because
two
products
kind
of
look
similar
,
and
they'd
call
me
back
and
say
wait
a
minute
,
you
said
it
was
going
to
do
this
,
and
so
we
finally
decided
when
we
find
a
product
or
we
find
a
solution
,
we're
just
going
to
put
it
in
our
store
,
and
then
there
won't
be
any
mistake
.
If
you
buy
it
from
our
store
,
you're
getting
exactly
what
I've
tested
and
talked
about
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:58:18
And
so
do
you
ship
these
products
yourself
Like
oh
,
wow
,
so
you're
a
whole
like
e-commerce
operation
as
well
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:58:23
Yeah
,
our
warehouse
is
about
200
yards
down
the
hill
from
the
house
here
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:58:27
Oh
,
wow
,
so
you
have
a
whole
system
.
Do
you
have
like
robotics
or
anything
like
that
?
No
,
robotics
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:58:33
No
robotics
.
We
do
have
several
dogs
at
the
warehouse
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:58:37
Those
help
with
morale
much
more
than
robotics
,
I
think
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:58:39
That's
right
.
So
robotics
are
just
kind
of
creepy
to
me
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:58:44
I
think
it's
a
challenge
because
I
actually
just
got
done
with
a
robotics
interview
and
they
were
talking
about
,
because
one
of
the
,
Mike
Lombard
,
who
both
of
us
are
familiar
with
Twitter
fame
,
has
his
own
show
as
well
.
He's
been
a
guest
on
this
show
previously
.
He
had
mentioned
that
the
drivers
they
spend
so
much
time
waiting
at
a
warehouse
and
they
spend
all
of
their
hours
there
and
that's
how
a
lot
of
their
hours
get
eaten
up
.
And
it
was
interesting
to
hear
from
that
particular
robotics
company
,
Nimble
,
which
they
were
they're
trying
to
alleviate
some
of
that
process
now
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:59:20
They're
trying
to
alleviate
it
with
operating
,
you
know
,
streamlining
the
operations
inside
the
warehouse
.
But
it's
still
,
I
think
,
a
touchy
subject
for
a
lot
of
drivers
and
for
,
you
know
,
especially
a
lot
of
warehouse
blue
collar
workers
,
where
there
is
that
psychological
component
of
is
this
robot
going
to
take
my
job
or
is
it
going
to
help
me
do
my
job
?
So
it's
kind
of
still
hotly
debated
,
I
think
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:59:46
Yeah
,
you
know
.
And
then
,
before
we
could
even
get
our
heads
around
,
that
AI
showed
up
.
And
now
the
white
collar
workers
have
the
same
fear
.
Blythe Brumleve
2:59:53
Yes
,
they
do
.
I
would
argue
that
they
probably
shouldn't
.
Because
it's
helped
me
a
ton
.
Kevin Rutherford
2:59:58
It
does
me
too
,
and
I've
talked
a
lot
about
it
already
and
some
of
my
listeners
are
tired
of
it
already
,
but
I
just
think
it's
such
an
important
topic
,
how
could
you
not
be
paying
attention
to
this
?
And
one
of
the
first
quotes
I
saw
that
really
made
it
click
with
me
.
It
said
you're
not
going
to
be
replaced
by
AI
.
You're
going
to
be
replaced
by
a
person
using
AI
better
than
you
do
.
And
think
about
you
know
,
you
probably
do
a
lot
of
the
same
kind
of
work
I
do
every
day
writing
and
kind
of
organizing
data
and
text
and
writing
copy
.
And
AI
is
so
powerful
I
mean
it
does
more
work
than
three
full-time
assistants
if
I
had
them
.
So
you
know
,
I
think
that
it
is
.
It's
not
that
AI
is
going
to
be
doing
all
the
work
,
but
there's
going
to
be
a
handful
of
people
who
are
going
to
be
really
good
at
AI
and
they're
going
to
replace
a
lot
of
people
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:00:56
And
that's
where
I
struggle
with
it
,
because
I
know
that
for
my
own
,
I
used
to
,
you
know
,
listen
to
videos
and
pause
.
Type
it
out
.
Pause
.
Type
out
the
transcript
pause
.
Adam Wingfield
3:01:07
type
it
Like
it
was
took
hours
to
do
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:01:12
And
some
of
the
tools
now
that
they
can
help
me
speed
up
that
podcast
process
like
that
where
the
transcripts
are
done
and
the
show
notes
are
done
and
I
have
five
different
podcast
titles
to
choose
from
Most
of
them
stink
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:01:24
But
I
know
that's
funny
,
Is
it
?
You
can
ask
for
50
titles
and
you
still
can't
find
one
you
like
in
there
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:01:31
But
I
will
say
that
I
think
it
helps
me
come
up
with
my
own
much
faster
.
Adam Wingfield
3:01:35
So
I
see
those
and
I'm
like
that
sucks
,
I'm
going
to
write
my
own
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:01:40
So
it's
not
all
the
way
there
yet
,
but
I
do
,
I
mean
,
especially
from
,
like
,
data
analysts
,
you
know
,
analytics
,
things
like
that
,
like
some
of
these
tools
are
going
to
really
help
out
the
,
you
know
,
the
some
of
the
smaller
team
like
me
,
like
you
,
oh
,
yeah
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:01:55
And
I
do
worry
about
the
output
that
it
will
the
,
I
guess
the
ripple
effects
that
it
will
have
,
cause
I
.
There's
a
freelance
team
that
I
would
work
with
sparingly
over
the
last
few
years
and
I
asked
them
to
to
quote
me
on
some
new
social
media
clips
,
videos
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:02:12
And
they
quoted
me
at
$3,000
and
I
almost
fell
out
of
my
chair
.
I
said
,
oh
,
I
am
not
.
That
is
a
lot
of
money
that
I'm
going
to
be
paying
every
single
month
.
But
then
there's
an
AI
tool
that
does
it
for
free
and
15
minutes
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:02:26
It's
insane
.
The
transcription
accuracy
is
just
.
I've
been
trying
to
use
transcription
for
about
20
years
and
it's
just
awful
.
You
know
,
I
go
the
way
back
to
when
you
had
to
spend
hours
training
the
program
for
your
voice
and
then
it
still
wasn't
very
accurate
and
if
you
tried
to
use
it
on
a
podcast
or
an
interview
the
other
person
,
it
would
never
even
come
close
.
Now
I
can't
believe
how
accurate
transcription
is
now
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:02:56
It's
even
to
the
point
where
one
of
my
I
use
otterai
and
they
will
recognize
my
so
in
other
transcription
tools
that
I've
used
,
you
upload
the
file
and
it
transcribes
it
and
you
got
to
go
in
and
you
got
to
clean
it
up
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:03:09
But
with
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:03:10
Otter
,
they
recognize
my
voice
.
Now
they
recognize
repeat
guests
,
so
they
automatically
smart
label
them
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:03:17
and
I
,
you
know
,
I
don't
really
have
to
look
at
the
finger
.
I
know
we're
geeking
out
a
little
bit
on
a
lot
of
this
AI
stuff
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:03:25
We
geeked
out
on
the
Doomsday
Preppers
on
.
Ai
.
What
about
the
other
aspect
,
the
healthy
tribe
aspect
of
the
company
?
How
did
that
sort
of
spin
off
from
let's
Trucker
Was
that
ever
an
aspect
of
let's
Trucker
?
Were
they
always
independent
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:03:40
It's
integrated
,
it's
a
part
of
everything
we
do
.
The
reason
we
ended
up
with
our
own
sites
you
know
,
the
last
couple
of
years
there's
been
the
talk
of
censorship
on
social
media
.
That's
been
going
on
for
a
lot
longer
than
people
know
,
and
the
most
censored
group
for
a
long
time
was
anybody
that
talked
about
alternative
health
.
So
when
I
would
talk
about
keto
diets
or
carnivore
diets
,
we
were
getting
deleted
and
censored
,
like
10
years
ago
.
Oh
,
wow
,
yeah
,
this
has
been
going
on
a
long
,
long
time
.
We
fought
YouTube
over
this
,
we
fought
Facebook
over
it
and
finally
I
just
got
tired
of
it
and
I
said
,
look
,
I'm
tired
of
putting
all
this
work
into
a
post
and
then
it
gets
deleted
and
censored
.
I
said
we're
just
going
to
go
create
our
own
sites
,
and
we
did
so
.
That
was
the
point
of
originally
we
had
a
healthy
tribe
and
trucking
tribe
separate
,
and
now
we're
in
the
process
of
merging
those
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:04:38
And
so
what
does
a
healthy
tribe
is
an
app
that
someone
can
download
and
it's
like
a
community
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:04:44
It's
a
community
.
Yeah
,
so
it's
a
community
.
We
have
courses
in
there
,
we've
got
chat
rooms
,
we've
got
different
topics
people
can
post
.
So
it's
really
our
own
social
network
where
we
can
say
and
do
whatever
we
want
without
being
canceled
and
deleted
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:05:02
And
do
you
ever
worry
about
maybe
like
the
hosting
provider
,
because
that's
something
that
I
worry
about
like
AWS
,
like
I
would
never
host
any
of
my
shows
or
my
sites
with
them
because
of
that
factor
you
could
just
say
the
wrong
thing
and
get
your
entire
platform
removed
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:05:18
We
do
think
about
it
.
And
so
,
on
the
social
sites
,
we
went
with
a
company
called
Mighty
Networks
I
was
with
oh
,
I
can't
remember
the
name
of
them
Now
.
Think
of
it
in
a
second
.
We
started
our
first
social
site
back
in
07
,
right
when
we
started
the
radio
show
,
and
we
were
on
a
platform
back
then
.
I
can't
think
of
the
name
of
it
now
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:05:42
You
know
I
might
,
I
want
to
,
it's
still
around
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:05:45
In
fact
,
mighty
Networks
.
The
CEO
of
Mighty
Network
came
from
the
other
platform
company
I
just
can't
think
of
the
name
right
now
.
So
we
ran
that
for
years
and
just
became
so
popular
that
we
just
we
were
really
losing
a
lot
of
traction
on
our
site
and
we
thought
let's
just
go
to
Facebook
.
That's
where
everybody
is
.
And
we
grew
a
health
group
on
Facebook
to
about
30,000
.
And
then
they
just
started
censoring
it
heavily
.
So
that
was
when
we
moved
off
and
so
we
worry
a
little
bit
about
it
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:06:23
I
know
the
background
of
the
company
really
well
.
I
know
the
background
of
the
CEO
.
They've
never
,
ever
tried
to
control
anybody's
content
,
not
that
it
couldn't
change
.
So
when
we
,
when
we
got
canceled
on
Sirius
,
I
took
one
day
off
.
We
went
back
to
podcasting
a
day
later
and
we
decided
then
that
we
were
only
going
to
use
platforms
until
we
could
build
our
own
.
And
we
are
very
,
very
close
now
.
We
won't
use
anybody's
phone
lines
.
We
won't
use
anybody's
platform
.
When
we're
done
with
our
broadcast
app
,
we
have
our
own
listener
app
.
When
we're
done
with
our
broadcast
app
,
you
would
have
to
shut
down
the
internet
to
cancel
me
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:07:09
That's
awesome
.
I
love
that
approach
because
I'm
I
host
websites
for
,
you
know
,
my
clients
in
the
trucking
industry
,
so
I'm
always
trying
to
think
about
how
can
I
best
protect
them
,
just
in
case
something
happens
.
I
want
them
to
be
completely
shut
off
from
you
know
,
their
their
digital
home
,
yeah
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:07:27
Yeah
,
well
,
you
know
,
that
was
kind
of
like
Facebook
.
We
had
this
group
of
30,000
people
.
We
couldn't
communicate
directly
with
them
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:07:34
Why
was
it
that
they
shut
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:07:34
you
down
.
They
would
just
claim
medical
misinformation
constantly
.
It
really
got
bad
.
I
mean
,
we
had
already
left
before
COVID
hit
,
but
we
were
still
running
the
group
on
Facebook
.
But
we
had
started
ours
to
get
it
going
and
when
COVID
hit
,
anything
I
tried
to
post
about
the
vaccine
got
censored
and
deleted
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:07:59
And
that's
where
I
think
you
know
a
platform
like
Mighty
Networks
,
which
I've
looked
at
before
and
did
a
little
test
run
.
I've
used
it
.
You
know
,
somebody
else
had
a
Mighty
Network
and
it's
a
really
intuitive
system
.
Adam Wingfield
3:08:10
Yes
,
it
is
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:08:10
Much
better
than
a
lot
of
like
the
the
course
,
I
guess
platforms
.
You
know
that
that
exist
.
Right
now
that
I
think
a
lot
of
trucking
companies
are
utilizing
Mighty
Networks
is
one
that
was
really
impressive
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:08:21
It's
very
flexible
.
You
can
,
and
now
,
like
everybody
else
,
they've
integrated
AI
into
the
platform
and
it's
changing
it
a
lot
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:08:31
How
so
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:08:35
A
lot
more
it's
hard
to
describe
even
a
lot
more
engagement
.
There's
AI
that
helps
everybody
kind
of
get
their
thoughts
together
when
they're
making
a
post
,
so
I
think
people
feel
a
little
more
confident
posting
.
There's
some
pretty
cool
tools
that
are
coming
that
,
I
think
.
So
we're
we're
kind
of
you
know
wedded
to
Mighty
Networks
right
now
,
but
when
we
finish
our
broadcast
app
,
we
may
look
at
writing
our
own
platform
for
this
,
even
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:09:07
Yeah
,
I
mean
it's
really
.
Is
the
probably
the
only
way
to
really
just
guarantee
that
all
of
your
platforms
stay
up
?
And
then
,
even
then
you're
kind
of
dependent
on
,
you
know
,
the
platforms
that
you
host
with
,
because
now
those
companies
are
making
those
decisions
as
well
.
Luckily
,
there's
other
companies
that
will
protect
you
,
but
Well
,
and
that's
what
we've
done
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:09:28
We've
got
multiple
redundant
servers
around
the
world
.
Adam Wingfield
3:09:31
Oh
,
wow
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:09:32
I
mean
,
it's
the
only
way
to
protect
your
data
and
your
business
anymore
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:09:36
And
then
you're
also
protecting
the
data
and
the
business
for
a
lot
of
folks
out
there
who
are
trying
to
use
your
platform
to
run
their
business
and
communicate
,
and
live
a
healthier
life
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:09:47
Right
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:09:48
All
right
,
kevin
,
what
about
your
overall
,
I
guess
,
sort
of
digital
strategy
?
You
know
you
mentioned
the
podcast
,
you
mentioned
the
Mighty
Networks
app
.
Are
you
still
,
you
know
,
are
you
utilizing
I've
seen
you
host
,
you
know
Twitter
Spaces
,
things
like
that
?
Where
are
you
kind
of
focusing
your
efforts
?
Where
is
that
,
I
think
,
the
biggest
opportunity
for
you
and
your
network
to
grow
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:10:08
So
we
just
want
to
grow
our
own
app
.
We're
actually
looking
at
this
broadcast
platform
.
When
we're
done
with
it
,
that
may
become
another
business
model
for
us
to
,
but
really
what
we're
building
doesn't
exist
right
now
.
There's
tons
of
podcast
platforms
.
You're
probably
familiar
with
all
of
them
,
but
the
majority
of
podcasts
are
interview
style
,
usually
recorded
,
usually
a
couple
hours
a
week
,
and
then
it's
edited
and
posted
.
Well
,
ours
we
do
15
to
20
hours
a
week
,
so
editing
is
just
out
of
the
question
.
I
mean
,
it's
just
way
too
much
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:10:49
We're
live
,
you
can
listen
to
our
show
while
we're
doing
it
,
and
then
everything's
recorded
and
available
on
the
app
and
we
have
live
callers
.
So
it's
really
kind
of
a
hybrid
live
radio
show
podcast
.
And
there
I
was
shocked
.
There's
no
software
out
there
to
do
this
.
There's
not
one
platform
where
you
can
do
everything
we're
trying
to
do
with
the
live
callers
and
the
live
streaming
.
So
we
had
to
hack
together
a
lot
of
pieces
and
now
the
programmers
are
just
busy
recreating
each
one
of
those
pieces
into
our
own
and
then
we
may
market
it
as
a
platform
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:11:30
And
then
that
could
be
your
own
sort
of
I
guess
mighty
networks
2.0
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:11:34
Right
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:11:35
Or
the
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:11:35
I
guess
,
the
Kevin
networks
,
yeah
,
so
Twitter
Spaces
is
really
interesting
for
me
because
it's
a
different
format
.
My
show
has
been
call
me
,
ask
me
a
question
.
I'll
answer
your
question
,
I'll
move
on
to
the
next
caller
,
and
it's
hard
to
get
listeners
out
of
that
mindset
where
,
on
Spaces
,
what
I'm
really
trying
to
do
is
just
have
more
open
conversation
,
like
,
don't
just
come
and
ask
me
questions
.
We
do
that
all
day
now
.
Let's
have
discussions
,
let's
talk
about
things
as
a
group
.
It
works
.
That's
a
better
format
for
that
,
and
we've
even
been
able
to
hack
it
so
that
our
Twitter
Spaces
is
actually
broadcast
live
on
our
show
app
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:12:19
Smart
?
That's
what
I
was
going
to
ask
.
Is
there
some
kind
of
,
I
guess
,
repurposing
?
Almost
repurposing
is
probably
a
bad
word
for
it
,
but
the
rule
cast
is
maybe
a
better
phrase
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:12:29
Yeah
,
and
that's
really
what
we
were
able
to
do
.
So
if
you
want
to
be
part
of
the
space
,
obviously
you
need
to
be
on
Twitter
and
doing
that
,
but
all
of
our
listeners
that
have
our
app
can
listen
to
those
Spaces
live
or
go
back
and
listen
to
the
recording
from
the
app
.
They
don't
even
have
to
have
a
Twitter
account
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:12:47
And
so
as
you're
,
I
imagine
,
with
you
know
how
often
you're
having
these
conversations
,
how
often
you're
talking
to
drivers
.
What
are
some
of
the
big
issues
that
they're
facing
today
that
you're
hearing
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:13:02
You
know
,
the
big
issues
haven't
changed
at
all
.
Most
of
the
issues
we
talk
about
all
the
time
are
not
the
issues
that
really
matter
to
an
owner
operator
,
and
let
me
say
this
most
of
my
focus
.
Still
,
if
it's
not
health
,
then
it's
going
to
be
business
and
it's
going
to
be
an
owner
operator
I'm
dealing
with
.
Other
than
health
.
I
really
don't
have
anything
to
offer
a
company
driver
.
A
lot
of
them
come
to
us
for
health
,
but
when
it's
business
and
that's
our
focus
the
things
that
put
owner
operators
out
of
business
have
not
changed
in
30
years
and
we
never
talk
about
them
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:13:37
It's
not
ELDs
,
it's
not
hours
of
service
,
it's
not
the
rates
,
it's
not
the
brokers
,
it's
not
broker
transparency
All
of
those
things
exist
,
but
what
puts
people
out
of
business
as
an
owner
operator
?
Same
thing
that
puts
every
small
business
out
lack
of
capital
and
planning
.
I
mean
,
it
all
comes
down
to
the
numbers
and
understanding
how
to
run
a
business
like
a
business
,
and
most
small
businesses
in
our
country
are
usually
people
with
a
skill
that
they're
good
at
and
then
they
turn
it
into
a
business
,
but
then
they
forget
you
have
to
be
good
at
business
,
because
that's
what
this
is
now
,
so
you
can
be
the
best
truck
driver
in
the
world
and
you're
going
to
fail
as
an
owner
operator
,
it's
very
likely
.
I
tell
people
all
the
time
,
as
much
as
I
hate
this
,
I
can
take
somebody
outside
of
the
industry
with
zero
experience
and
I
have
far
better
luck
making
them
successful
as
an
owner
operator
than
a
guy
who's
been
driving
for
20
years
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:14:35
Why
is
that
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:14:36
They
listen
,
they
don't
have
the
preconceived
notions
that
the
mindset
in
this
industry
is
you
get
paid
by
the
mile
,
you
better
drive
really
fast
.
It's
a
horrible
mindset
.
It
doesn't
work
when
you're
the
one
buying
the
fuel
and
the
tires
and
the
repairs
and
the
insurance
and
all
of
those
things
have
a
cost
and
we
need
to
set
up
a
business
that
keeps
those
costs
as
low
as
possible
.
You
know
,
almost
every
practice
of
the
owner
operators
is
working
against
them
.
We
talk
about
how
they
use
the
load
boards
and
I've
done
courses
on
this
.
We
actually
have
a
couple
of
phrases
,
the
two
things
they
do
on
the
load
boards
that
work
against
them
.
We
call
it
chasing
the
rate
and
one
and
done
.
And
here's
what
they
do
.
They
log
on
to
a
load
board
,
they're
in
Portland
and
they
want
to
get
home
to
Dallas
,
so
they
do
a
search
Portland
to
Dallas
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:15:35
I
work
with
both
of
the
largest
load
boards
companies
.
I
know
what
the
next
click
is
.
Over
90%
of
the
time
the
next
click
is
sort
that
by
rate
,
if
there
are
rates
there
and
they
start
calling
or
reaching
out
to
the
person
with
the
highest
rate
and
that's
what
we
call
chasing
the
rate
.
So
if
they
do
that
today
in
Portland
and
they
get
home
to
Dallas
and
then
in
a
couple
days
they
want
to
leave
Dallas
and
go
somewhere
.
What
are
the
odds
,
when
they
do
that
search
and
then
sort
by
rate
,
that
that
same
broker
is
coming
up
to
the
top
Almost
zero
.
So
now
they're
working
with
another
broker
on
the
next
load
,
and
the
next
load
,
and
the
next
load
,
and
the
next
load
.
And
this
became
apparent
to
me
when
I
was
doing
taxes
and
I
would
have
a
guy
with
one
truck
and
he
would
have
over
110.99
for
the
year
.
So
,
it
tells
me
,
worked
with
over
100
brokers
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:16:30
Well
,
the
first
thing
we
try
to
teach
them
you're
sorting
by
rate
,
but
the
best
rates
never
even
make
it
to
that
board
.
The
best
rates
get
moved
with
their
carriers
that
they
have
a
relationship
with
.
The
stuff
that
goes
to
the
board
is
the
stuff
that
doesn't
pay
all
that
well
and
they
have
trouble
moving
.
That's
why
they
put
it
on
a
board
.
So
if
all
you're
doing
is
logging
into
the
load
board
every
day
and
chasing
the
rate
,
you're
not
getting
the
best
rates
and
you're
never
building
relationships
and
it's
just
a
horrible
way
to
run
a
business
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:16:59
And
then
we
turn
around
as
an
industry
and
we
try
to
blame
it
on
the
brokers
and
say
it's
their
fault
that
the
rates
aren't
good
and
there's
no
transparency
.
We
don't
need
transparency
.
We're
negotiating
a
rate
for
today
.
I
either
like
this
rate
or
I
don't
.
I
either
accept
it
or
I
don't
,
and
if
I
accept
it
then
I
shouldn't
complain
that
it
was
too
low
.
Where
is
it
?
Oh
,
go
ahead
.
We
just
don't
talk
about
the
things
that
really
matter
the
numbers
,
the
cost
control
,
the
relationships
.
We
seem
to
spend
all
the
time
blaming
our
problems
as
owner
operators
on
everybody
else
in
the
industry
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:17:35
And
it
almost
sounds
like
it's
.
You
know
there's
a
lot
to
be
said
about
,
you
know
,
sort
of
the
CDL
mills
and
their
you
know
,
the
training
schools
,
driver
training
schools
and
things
like
that
.
But
how
much
training
happens
after
the
driver
gets
their
CDL
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:17:52
Formal
training
.
Formal
training
inside
of
training
.
Zero
,
zero
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:17:56
It's
pathetic
,
it
really
is
so
none
of
these
big
companies
are
helping
with
the
business
side
of
things
or
helping
them
like
you
are
,
or
is
it
really
like
companies
like
yours
that
are
the
ones
leading
the
charge
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:18:08
And
I
don't
know
of
many
like
mine
.
In
fact
,
I
really
don't
know
of
any
others
.
There
are
a
couple
out
there
,
but
not
much
.
The
training
that
I
have
looked
at
from
these
big
carriers
,
especially
with
lease
purchase
programs
,
the
training
is
awful
.
They'd
be
better
off
not
training
.
Here's
what
they
do
,
honestly
.
Here's
one
issue
I
came
across
this
training
video
and
it
was
training
owner
operators
on
this
one
concept
and
I
almost
lost
my
mind
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:18:36
I
thought
what
the
hell
are
they
thinking
?
The
concept
was
only
buy
enough
fuel
to
finish
the
load
you're
on
and
then
wait
until
you
have
another
load
to
buy
fuel
again
and
don't
leave
fuel
in
your
truck
over
the
weekend
.
And
I
thought
to
myself
why
in
the
world
would
anybody
ever
train
this
?
That
makes
no
sense
.
It
takes
up
more
time
.
It
costs
more
.
I
teach
a
whole
course
on
how
to
buy
fuel
at
the
lowest
price
and
you'll
never
get
the
lowest
price
by
this
strategy
.
You'll
get
the
opposite
and
you're
spending
a
lot
of
time
and
I
thought
why
would
they
teach
this
?
And
then
it
dawned
on
me
.
You
know
what
one
of
the
biggest
complaints
are
in
these
lease
purchase
programs
.
Kary Jablonski
3:19:17
What
is
it
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:19:18
The
driver
works
all
week
and
he
doesn't
even
get
a
check
,
or
it's
very
,
very
small
and
it's
because
these
things
don't
pay
very
well
.
But
these
carriers
started
teaching
these
guys
not
to
buy
too
much
fuel
because
that's
when
they
weren't
getting
their
check
,
because
they
had
advanced
it
all
on
fuel
.
But
that
only
saves
you
for
one
week
,
because
next
week
I
still
have
to
buy
the
fuel
,
but
now
I'm
buying
it
in
a
way
that's
costing
me
more
.
So
I
started
figuring
out
.
The
little
bit
of
training
that
they
were
doing
is
probably
making
things
worse
for
these
guys
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:19:55
And
so
what
is
the
I
guess
what
is
the
solution
for
a
lot
of
these
guys
,
because
obviously
your
program
helps
,
but
I
would
imagine
that
that's
how
a
lot
of
them
are
starting
and
then
getting
out
of
the
industry
very
quickly
,
only
never
to
return
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:20:09
Yeah
,
yeah
.
It's
why
we
have
as
much
turnover
as
we
do
,
not
in
just
drivers
,
but
we
turn
over
tons
of
owner
operators
,
these
lease
purchase
programs
.
They
might
as
well
put
a
revolving
door
on
that
truck
.
They'll
probably
lease
that
thing
to
five
or
six
people
over
time
,
because
very
few
people
ever
succeed
at
these
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:20:28
So
if
you
were
interested
in
becoming
a
driver
,
what
would
you
suggest
is
the
best
route
to
take
to
make
sure
that
you're
a
profitable
company
but
you're
also
maybe
working
for
a
company
that
values
you
,
or
going
to
the
right
CDL
school
?
It
feels
like
a
lot
of
things
to
navigate
very
quickly
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:20:46
You
know
it
does
.
I'm
not
sure
that
most
of
that
is
all
that
important
.
You're
going
to
go
to
a
CDL
school
because
you
have
to
just
about
just
pick
one
.
All
we
need
to
do
is
get
through
the
training
and
get
our
license
.
Now
I
would
love
to
see
better
training
,
but
we're
not
going
to
see
it
.
The
schools
that
are
out
there
are
all
about
the
same
.
So
just
pick
one
and
get
through
it
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:21:08
One
of
the
things
we've
tried
to
do
because
I
originally
tried
working
with
carriers
to
create
better
training
programs
and
again
I'm
only
talking
owner
operators
.
I
really
don't
do
a
lot
with
drivers
,
unless
it
was
a
health
thing
.
So
the
carriers
,
just
they
were
just
really
difficult
to
work
with
.
What
we've
done
over
the
years
is
we've
created
small
owner
operator
companies
that
we
can
refer
people
out
to
.
If
you
want
to
become
an
owner
operator
,
go
drive
for
these
guys
.
You're
going
to
get
to
know
the
owner
.
They're
going
to
show
you
how
to
own
a
truck
and
how
to
do
it
profitably
,
and
at
some
point
they
may
even
help
you
get
into
a
truck
,
and
that's
really
other
than
that
.
It's
just
trying
to
reach
more
and
more
people
and
educate
them
is
what
we
try
to
do
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:21:53
Now
,
I
love
that
referral
line
of
business
because
,
I
mean
,
there
are
people
who
are
making
it
,
but
I
would
imagine
that
a
lot
of
them
are
so
focused
on
making
the
business
work
versus
spreading
that
message
,
which
is
where
a
company
like
yours
comes
into
play
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:22:10
Let
me
give
you
the
two
extremes
of
what
we're
dealing
with
here
.
I
had
a
guy
call
me
on
the
air
one
day
and
he
said
I
hear
you
talk
about
these
lease
purchase
programs
.
He
said
I
got
into
one
.
He
said
I'm
struggling
,
I
can't
figure
out
what's
wrong
.
And
I
said
well
,
do
you
have
any
accounting
?
And
he
said
no
,
I
you
know
.
He
didn't
even
know
what
we
were
talking
about
really
and
I
said
look
,
here's
what
I'm
going
to
do
.
I
want
you
to
send
me
all
of
your
settlements
and
all
of
your
receipts
from
this
year
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:22:36
We
were
like
seven
months
into
the
year
and
I
said
I'm
going
to
put
it
into
our
accounting
system
and
then
we're
going
to
get
you
back
on
the
air
next
week
and
we're
going
to
go
through
the
numbers
and
figure
out
what
we
should
do
.
That's
what
I
do
and
that's
the
process
.
We
have
to
look
at
the
numbers
first
.
I
was
shocked
when
I
got
done
with
the
numbers
.
This
guy
was
making
13
cents
a
mile
net
.
That
was
it
.
And
I
,
when
we
got
him
on
the
air
,
I
said
I
don't
even
know
how
you're
eating
,
much
less
surviving
like
this
.
And
he
said
well
,
I'm
okay
,
I
guess
.
And
I
said
well
,
congratulations
,
because
you
must
be
managing
your
personal
money
really
well
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:23:15
Yes
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:23:16
And
I
said
so
here's
the
thing
you
are
surviving
on
13
cents
a
mile
.
I
said
we
could
get
you
driving
jobs
all
day
long
at
60
cents
a
mile
.
I
said
that's
what
we're
going
to
do
You're
going
to
go
get
a
driving
job
and
you're
going
to
keep
living
on
13
cents
a
mile
.
And
we're
going
to
take
the
other
47
cents
a
mile
and
we're
going
to
start
saving
it
to
buy
you
a
truck
and
we're
going
to
buy
the
right
truck
and
we're
going
to
spec
it
right
and
we're
going
to
send
you
to
the
right
carrier
.
And
we
did
all
that
and
this
process
happened
about
over
about
a
three
year
period
and
then
the
guy
started
calling
me
back
.
He
now
has
his
own
authority
,
his
own
trailers
,
his
own
customers
.
He
is
doing
fantastic
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:23:58
Love
that
,
yeah
,
and
that
that's
the
potential
that's
out
there
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:24:03
That's
such
a
great
service
that
that
you're
providing
for
this
making
me
a
little
emotional
just
thinking
about
it
because
you
gave
this
pathway
to
this
person
who
wouldn't
have
succeeded
,
probably
,
without
your
insight
and
without
your
help
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:24:14
He
probably
would
have
left
the
industry
.
He
was
so
frustrated
he
figured
,
if
I'm
working
this
hard
and
I
own
the
truck
and
I'm
taking
all
this
risk
or
he's
leasing
the
truck
I
should
be
making
more
.
And
I
said
you're
right
.
And
I
said
in
this
program
there's
no
way
.
I
said
I've
looked
over
the
numbers
at
best
we
might
get
you
to
40
or
50
cents
a
mile
and
that's
just
pathetic
for
all
the
risk
you're
taking
and
all
the
money
you've
put
up
.
I
said
we
want
to
get
you
to
the
point
where
you're
making
a
dollar
plus
a
mile
Take
home
.
And
he
is
now
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:24:46
That's
wonderful
.
That
is
such
a
great
story
.
Thank
you
for
sharing
that
.
Now
,
you
know
,
as
we
kind
of
like
round
out
the
interview
,
I
do
have
,
it
feels
weird
to
kind
of
like
segue
into
this
next
topic
,
because
it's
more
like
rapid
fire
questions
,
things
like
that
.
So
I
guess
there's
no
real
,
I
guess
graceful
way
to
do
this
.
That's
okay
,
but
wait
,
one
question
I
would
have
to
ask
is
if
I
could
give
you
a
magic
wand
to
fix
trucking
,
what
would
you
fix
and
why
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:25:16
Wow
.
You
know
I
am
a
pretty
dyed
in
the
wolf
remarket
capitalist
.
I
don't
like
a
lot
of
rules
,
I
don't
like
a
lot
of
regulations
,
I
like
a
lot
of
competition
.
Honestly
,
I
know
a
lot
of
people
think
the
system
is
really
,
really
broken
.
I
don't
think
it
is
.
I
think
if
we
could
.
The
one
thing
that
really
worries
me
right
now
is
the
AB
five
type
laws
,
the
fight
against
independent
contractors
.
If
I
can
see
a
problem
in
the
industry
,
that's
the
only
one
.
I'm
really
worried
about
All
the
other
stuff
we
can
deal
with
.
You
know
,
speed
limiters
that
wouldn't
be
wild
about
them
.
Elds
that
wasn't
wild
about
that
.
I'm
not
even
worried
about
wild
hours
of
service
at
all
.
It
seems
to
me
like
every
time
somebody
wants
to
talk
about
how
to
improve
trucking
,
the
government
has
to
be
involved
somehow
.
They
always
want
some
sort
of
new
regulation
or
some
new
rule
.
I'm
the
opposite
.
Let's
get
rid
of
a
whole
bunch
of
them
and
let's
figure
out
how
we
educate
people
better
as
an
industry
and
we'll
all
get
better
that
way
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:26:26
And
the
other
big
project
we're
working
on
and
I've
been
working
on
this
for
a
couple
years
on
and
off
and
we
do
a
show
called
Broker
Connect
.
I
think
one
of
the
best
ways
we
could
fix
our
transportation
industry
is
much
better
partnership
and
cooperation
between
small
brokers
and
small
carriers
.
Those
are
the
two
groups
that
move
the
vast
majority
of
the
freight
in
this
country
and
they're
kind
of
a
mess
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:26:51
Well
said
,
and
they're
constantly
fighting
with
each
other
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:26:55
Here's
what
I
don't
get
.
I
do
a
whole
piece
on
.
I
didn't
make
this
up
,
but
I
can't
remember
where
I
heard
this
,
but
I've
repeated
this
about
a
million
times
the
secret
to
success
in
business
.
Are
you
ready
?
Any
business
,
any
business
here's
what
it
is
.
You
,
as
a
business
owner
,
you
figure
out
how
to
provide
more
value
to
your
customer
than
anybody
else
can
.
That's
it
.
That's
the
secret
to
every
business
on
the
planet
.
Now
,
it's
not
easy
,
but
that's
what
you
should
be
focused
on
all
day
long
.
How
do
I
provide
more
value
to
my
customer
?
The
next
time
you
do
an
interview
and
you
have
an
owner
operator
on
,
ask
him
who
his
customer
is
,
you'll
get
the
deer
in
the
headlight
.
Look
,
they
don't
even
think
about
customers
.
Think
about
the
discussions
you've
had
with
small
carriers
and
owner
operators
.
How
many
times
does
the
word
customer
even
come
up
?
Blythe Brumleve
3:27:51
Right
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:27:52
Never
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:27:54
It's
always
about
the
drivers
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:27:55
It
is
.
Then
I
tell
people
if
that's
the
way
you
succeed
,
by
providing
more
value
to
your
customer
than
anybody
else
,
can
we
now
need
to
identify
your
customer
?
They
will
still
look
at
me
like
they're
not
sure
.
I'll
say
here's
a
clue
.
Who's
check
did
you
deposit
In
the
model
of
a
broker
in
the
mix
?
Who's
check
are
they
depositing
?
It's
the
brokers
.
That's
their
customer
.
Then
I
look
at
them
and
say
why
would
you
walk
around
talking
about
your
customer
like
this
?
They're
scumbags
.
They're
controlling
the
rate
.
They
could
care
less
about
me
.
They're
just
taking
everything
they
can
get
.
No
,
that's
your
customer
.
You
need
to
stop
talking
about
them
like
that
and
try
figuring
out
how
you
provide
value
to
them
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:28:42
Then
develop
those
deeper
relationships
so
you're
not
chasing
the
freight
on
the
load
boards
,
exactly
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:28:48
Yep
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:28:49
That
all
makes
a
ton
of
sense
.
Now
I
know
we
got
a
few
minutes
left
here
,
so
I
just
wanted
to
ask
you
just
a
couple
little
rapid
fire
questions
.
What
is
your
favorite
supply
chain
factoid
?
It
can
be
about
trucking
,
anything
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:29:06
Supply
chain
factoid
that
the
average
truck
on
the
road
gets
6.6
miles
to
the
gallon
and
we
now
have
trucks
breaking
11
.
That's
just
shameful
that
it's
such
a
small
group
that
are
achieving
those
kind
of
numbers
,
but
we've
proven
it's
possible
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:29:30
How
is
it
possible
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:29:33
Modifying
the
trucks
,
different
gearing
,
different
transmission
setups
,
different
tires
I've
identified
over
80
things
that
affect
fuel
economy
.
Wow
,
now
,
we
can't
change
all
of
them
,
but
a
lot
of
them
we
can
.
Some
of
them
are
out
of
wind
temperature
,
but
we
knowing
those
things
is
how
we
get
to
those
10
,
11
,
12
miles
to
the
gallon
trucks
that
we're
now
creating
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:30:00
Wow
,
that's
a
great
fact
Right
off
the
top
of
your
head
.
I
don't
send
these
questions
out
ahead
of
time
people
,
so
he's
coming
up
with
that
right
off
the
top
,
which
is
great
.
And
last
question
what's
your
favorite
SaaS
product
that's
not
your
own
?
Kevin Rutherford
3:30:20
Site
called
Mintcom
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:30:23
Oh
,
the
money
manager
Mint
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:30:24
Yes
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:30:26
Love
that
one
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:30:27
Love
that
one
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:30:28
Free
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:30:28
It's
been
free
forever
too
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:30:30
And
I
didn't
even
think
that
they
were
still
around
.
I
remember
using
them
back
in
the
day
,
but
I
started
using
RocketMoney
recently
,
and
that's
who
.
I
think
they're
fairly
similar
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:30:41
I
think
they're
both
owned
by
Intuit
,
some
companies
,
I
believe
so
,
and
that's
TurboTax
,
Quicken
QuickBooks
,
Mint
RocketMortgage
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:30:53
So
that's
my
next
step
as
a
business
owner
.
My
next
step
is
to
plug
RocketMoney
into
all
the
accounting
apps
,
which
means
Well
,
you
know
what's
happening
now
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:31:03
I'm
actually
working
with
a
new
platform
,
exactly
like
Mint
,
except
they're
brand
new
and
it's
all
run
by
AI
,
but
I
also
imagine
that
Mint
will
have
AI
all
over
their
site
pretty
soon
too
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:31:20
And
it
just
makes
things
so
much
simpler
to
be
able
to
see
,
like
all
of
the
little
you
know
,
the
Apple
transactions
that
aren't
labeled
,
but
they
show
up
on
your
bill
and
you
have
no
idea
what
they
go
to
.
So
you
have
to
physically
go
into
the
Apple
app
to
find
out
what
they're
charging
you
for
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:31:33
So
it's
a
it
makes
things
a
lot
easier
.
You
know
what
I
thought
was
the
single
best
feature
.
Some
of
these
money
apps
put
in
the
ability
to
cancel
your
subscriptions
with
one
click
.
Yes
,
isn't
that
an
awesome
feature
?
Blythe Brumleve
3:31:47
It
is
,
it's
very
handy
,
or
the
the
negotiate
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:31:50
We'll
negotiate
this
bill
for
you
which
is
great
,
right
,
right
,
yeah
,
I
am
so
bad
at
signing
up
for
every
subscription
on
the
internet
and
I
,
every
time
I
sign
up
on
them
,
I'm
gonna
I'll
cancel
it
before
the
end
of
the
day
.
I
just
want
to
see
how
it
works
.
And
then
it
charges
you
and
you
don't
know
,
oh
I
know
,
and
then
it
goes
on
for
months
and
months
and
then
somebody
from
accounting
will
send
me
something
Are
you
using
this
?
And
I'll
go
.
I
don't
know
what
that
is
and
I'll
be
like
what
are
you
signed
up
for
Right
?
Blythe Brumleve
3:32:18
Then
you
have
to
do
your
own
due
diligence
.
Kevin Rutherford
3:32:21
I
know
Right
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:32:23
She
is
the
CEO
of
Trucker
Tools
and
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
a
different
kind
of
CRM
today
,
a
Carrier
Relationship
Management
Platform
.
So
,
Carrey
,
welcome
into
the
show
.
Kary Jablonski
3:32:34
Thank
you
so
much
,
Blayth
.
I
,
of
course
,
was
eager
to
get
a
message
from
you
,
so
very
honored
to
be
here
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:32:41
Absolutely
Now
.
We
first
met
at
the
Freight
Waves
F3
event
last
year
and
we
were
sitting
across
the
table
from
the
Freight
Vana
guys
of
Dawn
and
Lars
and
we
were
talking
a
lot
about
like
chess
and
traveling
,
yes
,
and
both
you
and
Lars
convinced
me
because
I
had
a
New
York
trip
coming
up
soon
.
You
both
of
you
convinced
me
do
not
stay
in
Times
Square
,
and
that
was
such
great
advice
because
we
did
.
Another
day
we
stayed
in
another
part
of
New
York
,
so
we
stayed
in
Koreatown
,
which
ended
up
being
really
wonderful
and
like
great
food
and
just
a
great
vibe
environment
,
but
I'm
so
glad
we
took
your
advice
and
stayed
in
another
part
of
town
.
That's
great
.
Kary Jablonski
3:33:21
Did
you
go
to
Times
Square
at
all
?
Blythe Brumleve
3:33:22
while
you
were
there
,
a
little
yeah
or
less
,
like
you
know
,
passing
through
.
I
think
you
kind
of
have
to
see
it
.
You
know
,
on
the
first
or
second
night
that
you're
there
,
but
everywhere
else
was
,
you
know
,
the
museums
and
the
sightseeing
we
didn't
do
a
lot
of
touristy
stuff
,
which
I
was
thankful
for
.
We
did
a
lot
of
like
smaller
shops
and
exploring
and
things
like
that
,
great
,
great
.
So
now
with
you
and
your
story
,
because
you
come
from
,
you
know
,
a
big
city
in
Boston
.
I
believe
you
said
that
you
grew
up
in
the
Midwest
area
or
you're
currently
there
in
the
Midwest
area
,
based
in
Chicago
.
But
I'm
curious
as
to
how
.
What
first
got
you
into
freight
?
What
got
you
interested
in
the
industry
?
Kary Jablonski
3:34:02
Yeah
.
So
honestly
,
I
think
it
goes
.
My
interest
in
transportation
goes
way
back
growing
up
.
So
I
am
from
Boston
and
my
mom
was
really
involved
in
local
government
when
I
was
growing
up
and
she
just
always
talked
to
us
about
planning
infrastructure
,
how
things
work
,
how
things
move
,
which
kind
of
got
me
just
fascinated
with
the
concept
of
place
and
how
do
you
develop
cities
,
how
do
you
develop
connectivity
?
I
love
maps
Got
one
behind
me
right
here
.
So
I
think
from
a
young
age
I've
always
been
interested
in
that
.
Kary Jablonski
3:34:32
And
fast
forward
several
years
following
college
,
I
spent
a
couple
of
years
as
a
consultant
,
which
was
great
,
but
knew
pretty
quickly
I
wanted
to
be
in
a
business
,
driving
impact
,
making
decisions
with
some
real
skin
in
the
game
.
And
around
that
time
Uber
was
really
blowing
up
and
I
thought
what
cooler
experience
than
being
part
of
scaling
a
business
?
That
is
probably
the
most
transformative
Certainly
technology
,
I
think
,
in
how
cities
operate
,
move
,
connect
,
how
people
move
and
connect
at
least
in
my
lifetime
.
So
had
the
good
fortune
to
join
the
Uber
team
back
in
2016
.
And
I
spent
a
couple
of
years
there
.
I
was
never
on
the
freight
side
myself
.
I
worked
on
the
ride
sharing
and
Uber
Eats
parts
of
the
business
ride
sharing
in
Washington
DC
,
which
was
one
of
the
US
kind
of
hubs
.
And
then
I
spent
some
time
abroad
,
primarily
in
Mexico
City
,
working
on
Uber
Eats
for
Latin
America
,
and
I
left
right
after
we
went
public
and
a
lot
of
my
colleagues
friends
had
either
gone
to
work
for
Uber
freight
in
that
time
period
.
They
were
either
in
the
mysterious
,
interesting
,
exciting
business
or
we're
leaving
Uber
to
start
their
own
companies
and
a
ton
of
people
saw
a
lot
of
opportunity
in
the
freight
space
for
reasons
we
could
talk
about
all
day
long
that
are
definitely
still
opportunities
and
it
got
me
thinking
what
a
cool
,
interesting
space
to
be
in
.
What
more
important
than
supporting
how
everything
is
moved
.
Kary Jablonski
3:35:59
So
was
interested
in
freight
and
following
Uber
,
I
got
my
MBA
and
that's
where
I
met
the
convergence
of
freight
and
some
other
things
happened
to
bring
me
to
Trucker
Tools
.
I
met
the
current
owners
of
Trucker
Tools
,
alpine
investors
,
while
I
was
doing
my
MBA
.
They
have
a
really
interesting
operating
model
where
they
hire
operators
right
out
of
school
to
come
in
and
work
with
founders
to
transition
management
as
they're
looking
for
a
full
exit
and
that's
how
I
joined
the
business
.
They
just
acquired
Trucker
Tools
.
Given
my
background
,
my
interest
in
logistics
transportation
,
my
experiences
before
Trucker
Tools
.
It
was
just
perfect
match
,
perfect
convergence
.
So
that's
how
I
got
here
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:36:41
I
love
that
part
that
you
mentioned
about
Uber
Eats
,
because
I
was
listening
to
your
interview
on
Truck
and
Hustle
.
You
were
talking
about
how
,
living
in
,
you
moved
abroad
to
,
like
,
I
think
,
indonesia
and
then
also
Mexico
City
,
I
think
,
for
a
while
.
What
was
different
about
,
I
guess
,
the
markets
abroad
versus
,
like
,
the
Uber
Eats
market
in
the
US
?
Kary Jablonski
3:37:01
Great
question
.
So
abroad
,
uber
Eats
is
,
I
think
,
a
more
efficient
business
.
It's
been
a
while
since
I've
worked
in
the
business
and
Uber
Eats
really
took
off
at
the
beginning
of
COVID
and
I
think
it's
now
50-50
of
Uber's
revenue
with
Fried
Sherry
,
which
is
amazing
,
Wow
.
But
the
thing
about
Uber
Eats
in
Mexico
or
Indonesia
,
which
are
the
two
international
markets
I
worked
in
,
is
you're
able
to
be
really
efficient
with
deliveries
,
because
so
much
of
what
they
call
supply
driver
supply
,
carrier
supply
is
on
two
wheels
,
whether
it's
a
bicycle
or
primarily
,
motorbike
,
which
commands
different
unit
economics
when
it
comes
to
compensating
drivers
and
you're
just
able
to
be
a
lot
more
nimble
.
Kary Jablonski
3:37:42
Those
cities
are
massively
congested
in
ways
that
if
you've
only
ever
spent
time
in
the
US
,
I
don't
think
you
can
even
comprehend
like
it
puts
Chicago
traffic
,
la
traffic
,
to
shame
.
Also
,
having
more
nimble
delivery
folks
combined
with
that
horrible
congestion
,
that
actually
makes
delivery
a
much
more
appealing
option
,
sometimes
depending
on
where
you
live
.
Interesting
,
I
think
,
make
the
markets
really
appealing
,
and
those
emerging
markets
were
definitely
pioneers
ahead
of
the
US
in
everything
delivery
.
So
not
just
food
delivery
,
but
there
are
plenty
of
competitors
in
Latin
America
and
in
Asian
Asia
that
have
pioneered
the
super
app
model
where
it's
not
just
food
delivery
.
You
can
get
cash
delivered
,
you
can
get
books
delivered
,
you
can
get
groceries
delivered
,
you
can
get
someone
to
come
lock
your
dog
,
give
you
a
man
of
care
,
give
you
a
massage
.
So
just
a
lot
more
appetite
for
that
on
demand
economy
than
I
think
what
we've
seen
so
far
at
least
.
Again
,
this
is
all
pre-pandemic
in
the
US
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:38:44
That's
super
interesting
because
I
noticed
when
I
was
in
New
York
all
of
the
different
modes
of
transportation
that
they
deal
with
the
congestion
.
Somebody
that
was
delivering
something
was
on
one
of
those
electric
bikes
like
the
e-bikes
.
There
were
bigger
trucks
that
had
to
offload
into
the
smaller
almost
like
the
UPS
,
like
Amazon
freight-style
trucks
and
they
would
unload
those
even
more
into
a
smaller
cargo
bike
type
of
truck
.
So
it's
amazing
that
some
of
that
maybe
is
moving
over
to
the
states
where
it
makes
a
ton
of
sense
Now
as
you
transitioned
into
the
role
with
Alpine
.
What
drew
Alpine
to
the
transition
?
To
notice
trucker
tools
as
a
good
option
for
them
to
buy
out
.
Kary Jablonski
3:39:27
Yeah
.
So
two
things
.
One
,
the
freight
space
.
It
is
a
I
don't
need
to
tell
you
how
massive
this
market
is
,
so
they
wanted
in
.
They
saw
a
ton
of
potential
there
.
They
saw
that
hasn't
fully
digitized
yet
so
they're
buying
vertical
SaaS
businesses
massive
opportunity
.
And
then
,
specifically
to
trucker
tools
.
Kary Jablonski
3:39:46
We
have
a
really
interesting
model
that
I
don't
think
is
replicated
by
anyone
in
this
space
and
that
we've
got
this
virtuous
cycle
of
starting
as
a
mobile
app
for
carriers
.
Kary Jablonski
3:39:55
We've
really
amassed
a
really
large
part
of
the
carrier
market
,
especially
small
fleets
owner
operators
the
hardest
folks
to
track
down
on
our
mobile
app
because
it's
been
in
the
market
since
2010
.
Our
founders
were
totally
visionary
when
it
came
to
realizing
that
drivers
would
be
moving
to
kind
of
this
mobile
lifestyle
,
build
a
mobile
app
for
life
on
the
road
From
there
,
able
to
start
tracking
loads
with
brokerages
,
and
created
this
virtuous
cycle
where
the
more
drivers
you
get
on
the
app
,
the
easier
it's
going
to
be
to
track
their
loads
.
The
more
brokers
you
have
tracking
loads
,
the
more
drivers
are
going
to
get
on
the
app
and
then
add
it
in
our
digital
freight
matching
platform
as
well
to
take
advantage
of
all
that
data
and
information
in
that
mobile
first
experience
.
So
we've
got
a
pretty
unique
business
model
that
not
many
folks
in
the
industry
can
replicate
,
and
I
think
our
number
one
asset
is
that
massive
carrier
network
that's
highly
engaged
on
our
mobile
platform
.
So
that's
what
Alpine
was
really
excited
about
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:40:51
And
it
was
super
interesting
about
the
Trucker
Tools
origin
stories
that
it
was
started
like
2009
,
around
the
same
time
as
the
app
store
was
launched
.
Social
media
platforms
are
launching
.
Why
,
I
guess
,
during
?
I'm
still
struggling
to
get
folks
to
realize
the
value
of
having
a
website
,
but
,
like
10
,
20
years
ago
,
you
guys
are
already
on
the
app
store
.
Why
do
you
think
the
app
store
was
so
important
?
Is
it
because
of
the
mobile
driver
lifestyle
?
Kary Jablonski
3:41:20
Yeah
,
definitely
mobile
driver
lifestyle
,
If
you
think
.
I
think
one
of
the
first
features
in
Trucker
Tools
that
was
that
took
off
and
continue
to
grow
carrier
interest
,
which
was
really
just
kind
of
a
word
of
mouth
play
,
was
truck
stop
reviews
.
So
aggregating
reviews
on
what
is
available
at
different
truck
stops
,
what
do
different
truck
stops
offer
which
they
not
offer
.
And
,
if
you
think
about
it
,
the
only
way
to
kind
of
capture
that
information
is
basically
to
crowdsource
it
among
the
very
,
very
fragmented
carrier
base
.
So
I
think
our
founders
,
prasad
Marali
,
saw
data
like
that
.
There
needs
to
be
some
sort
of
crowdsource
effort
to
aggregate
it
.
Combined
with
the
mobile
first
lifestyle
of
especially
owner
operators
who
,
many
of
them
,
live
in
their
truck
for
days
,
weeks
at
a
time
,
made
a
lot
of
sense
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:42:13
And
so
I
would
imagine
that
maybe
in
the
early
days
it
was
maybe
easier
to
convince
truck
drivers
to
download
an
app
because
it
feels
,
especially
on
social
media
,
it
feels
like
truckers
are
very
like
tech
averse
.
They're
slow
to
trust
a
company
in
order
to
download
an
app
or
to
install
new
technology
on
their
truck
,
things
like
that
.
How
is
,
I
guess
,
trucker
tools
balancing
?
That
Was
it
easier
before
and
now
it's
maybe
a
little
bit
more
challenging
,
or
has
it
kind
of
been
the
same
?
So
?
Kary Jablonski
3:42:43
we're
growing
our
monthly
active
users
kind
of
at
an
accelerating
rate
actually
,
so
I
wouldn't
say
it's
getting
more
difficult
.
I
think
one
of
our
major
advantages
again
is
that
we
started
so
early
,
so
we've
been
able
to
build
that
trust
that
has
to
be
earned
from
the
carrier
and
driver
community
.
Can't
just
tell
them
download
this
app
,
it's
not
going
to
track
you
and
you
don't
want
to
get
tracked
.
It's
not
going
to
collect
any
data
that
you
don't
want
collected
.
That
really
needs
to
be
earned
over
time
.
So
,
starting
13
or
so
years
ago
,
we've
been
able
to
prove
ourselves
out
in
the
market
.
So
that's
been
a
major
advantage
.
So
there's
a
ton
of
brand
trust
,
a
ton
of
brand
loyalty
,
especially
in
those
early
days
,
providing
those
free
tools
for
life
in
the
road
.
We've
got
17
tools
for
life
in
the
road
,
ranging
from
truck
stop
reviews
,
like
I
mentioned
,
way
station
locator
,
truck
specific
routing
,
parking
and
way
scales
kind
of
everything
you
might
need
as
an
interoperator
to
live
your
daily
life
.
We've
got
in
the
app
so
that
just
continues
to
drive
.
Not
just
kind
of
that
initial
download
,
but
continued
engagement
Over
time
though
certainly
over
,
you
know
,
since
the
yielding
mandate
passed
in
2018
,
we've
been
open
to
other
forms
of
engaging
with
our
carriers
.
Kary Jablonski
3:43:52
We're
seeing
,
certainly
,
plenty
of
brokers
want
to
track
via
ELD
right
now
because
it's
,
you
know
,
one
time
set
up
,
set
it
and
forget
it
,
and
it's
often
more
consistent
than
mobile
tracking
.
It's
not
the
same
with
carriers
.
It
can
be
more
of
a
challenge
to
get
them
,
to
convince
or
get
them
bought
into
ELD
tracking
when
it's
often
actually
better
for
them
.
There's
no
safety
concern
because
they
don't
have
to
deal
with
the
phone
.
They
,
you
know
,
again
set
it
and
forget
it
.
Tracking
is
not
going
away
.
It's
definitely
becoming
a
ubiquitous
requirement
,
especially
in
a
market
like
this
.
Kary Jablonski
3:44:19
So
we've
we've
really
focused
on
building
on
our
ELD
network
as
well
,
to
build
,
you
know
,
an
alternative
for
carriers
to
track
with
and
to
engage
with
us
with
,
which
has
gone
really
well
,
and
I
think
that's
also
just
kind
of
a
trust
play
.
You
know
,
when
the
mandate
came
out
in
2018
,
trust
was
probably
here
.
Now
it's
like
just
up
here
and
every
little
bit
makes
a
difference
and
our
goal
is
to
really
just
meet
carriers
where
they
are
,
however
they
are
.
So
I
talked
to
them
.
Kary Jablonski
3:44:45
The
mobile
app
talked
about
ELDs
.
We
just
released
a
another
tracking
.
I
guess
I'll
call
it
modality
in
our
text
to
track
and
what's
up
,
to
track
functionality
,
which
is
for
those
drivers
who
do
not
want
to
download
a
mobile
app
,
may
not
have
an
ELD
or
do
not
want
to
integrate
their
ELD
.
Brokers
can
automate
sending
a
one-time
SMS
or
WhatsApp
message
to
them
to
click
on
,
share
their
location
and
go
back
to
driving
.
So
we've
really
,
you
know
our
our
goal
is
to
meet
the
carrier
where
they
are
.
Mobile
app
were
dedicated
to
continue
to
prove
out
value
,
which
continues
to
drive
our
adoption
rate
,
but
we're
absolutely
open
to
other
ways
to
engage
carriers
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:45:21
And
it
you
know
,
it's
one
thing
during
one
of
these
interviews
that
I
was
listening
to
that
that
I
really
resonated
with
is
that
a
lot
of
the
tools
that
are
in
trucker
tools
are
giving
the
ability
to
the
carrier
,
especially
the
small
owner
operators
and
the
small
fleets
.
I
think
something
like
80%
of
your
carriers
on
your
platform
have
five
trucks
or
less
.
You
listened
to
all
those
interviews
.
Kary Jablonski
3:45:42
Great
job
,
I'm
so
impressed
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:45:44
But
one
thing
I
really
liked
what
you
said
is
that
you're
giving
tools
to
the
smaller
carriers
that
the
big
ones
already
have
,
and
I
think
you
know
everything
we've
seen
over
,
you
know
the
yellow
situation
over
the
last
few
weeks
,
even
months
.
Giving
access
to
these
similar
tools
and
these
similar
similar
like
selling
advantages
for
these
smaller
carriers
seems
like
a
really
important
play
.
Kary Jablonski
3:46:04
Absolutely
yeah
,
and
that's
again
not
as
kind
of
.
The
founding
vision
of
trucker
tools
was
to
democratize
and
improve
opportunity
,
improve
life
and
the
lifestyle
of
the
owner
operator
out
there
.
So
that
is
super
core
to
our
mission
to
this
day
,
and
you
know
we're
constantly
looking
at
our
app
thinking
what
else
can
we
be
providing
that
is
going
to
allow
the
owner
operator
to
be
more
competitive
,
to
have
better
intelligence
,
to
make
better
decisions
?
Just
a
couple
of
examples
we
integrated
with
FreightWave
Sonar
last
year
.
We
give
away
track
rate
data
and
Sonar
data
to
small
carriers
for
free
.
So
huge
shout
out
to
our
friends
at
FreightWaves
for
that
partnership
which
helps
our
owner
operators
make
better
decisions
about
which
lanes
to
bid
on
,
where
they
should
go
,
what
rates
they
should
be
pursuing
.
And
we've
got
a
couple
of
other
things
in
the
works
right
now
in
the
vein
of
partnerships
that
we're
hoping
to
launch
within
the
mobile
app
that
are
just
going
to
give
owner
operators
more
and
small
fleets
more
access
to
whether
it's
capital
,
whether
it's
credit
,
just
help
them
kind
of
open
up
their
opportunity
set
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:47:04
And
I
think
what
one
more
important
tool
that
you
said
too
is
that
the
digital
bookings
are
the
future
for
small
carriers
and
contractors
.
You
said
that
about
a
year
ago
.
That
was
on
BCB
Live
.
I'm
keeping
my
interviews
oh
my
God
,
I'm
done
so
many
.
Where
did
you
find
all
this
?
It's
like
all
on
YouTube
.
Youtube
is
like
.
I
love
using
it
or
using
other
interviews
to
give
me
that
baseline
and
see
where
,
see
what
the
I
guess
the
predictions
were
,
the
thought
process
were
a
time
here
to
go
and
see
if
we're
anywhere
closer
to
that
,
Because
you
did
say
that
about
a
year
ago
that
digital
bookings
are
the
future
for
small
carriers
and
contractors
and
you
want
to
try
to
get
rid
of
the
one
load
wonders
by
helping
carriers
and
brokers
develop
those
relationships
.
So
do
you
think
that
we're
closer
to
that
reality
of
the
digital
broker
being
the
future
,
or
are
there
still
some
ways
to
go
?
Kary Jablonski
3:47:55
So
I
think
we
are
closer
to
the
digital
bookings
being
a
core
asset
,
a
core
capability
of
any
brokerage
.
I
think
digital
brokers
and
traditional
brokerages
are
just
kind
of
converging
into
one
and
the
same
and
it's
really
all
about
being
a
tech
enabled
broker
.
If
you
go
to
the
Uber
flight
floor
or
you
go
to
the
Convoy
floor
,
it's
going
to
look
a
lot
like
the
Echo
floor
or
the
Coyote
floor
.
So
I
don't
really
even
,
honestly
,
I
think
probably
the
biggest
difference
that
there
is
,
like
on
technology
budgets
and
the
kind
of
probably
not
even
,
though
I
mean
these
companies
have
massive
tech
budgets
,
which
is
awesome
.
They
build
great
technology
.
So
anyway
,
all
to
say
,
I
do
think
that
prediction
is
trending
in
the
right
direction
Great
job
,
carrie
and
that
we've
seen
,
at
least
from
the
data
that
we
track
and
track
with
rules
,
a
massive
increase
in
the
number
of
digital
interactions
,
digital
bookings
that
carriers
are
making
and
completing
on
our
platform
over
the
year
.
Kary Jablonski
3:48:57
I
think
that's
driven
by
a
couple
of
things
.
One
,
carriers
are
chasing
freight
everywhere
.
The
market
is
still
down
,
so
carriers
need
to
be
nimble
and
the
fastest
way
to
try
to
book
a
load
is
to
make
a
digital
offer
or
,
even
better
,
book
loads
completely
digitally
with
a
book
at
now
or
an
automated
negotiation
,
which
is
another
feature
that
we
have
.
I
also
think
just
kind
of
there
are
these
secular
tailwinds
of
mobile
adoption
of
.
You
know
,
jen
or
the
baby
boomers
are
kind
of
aging
out
of
being
drivers
.
You've
got
millennials
and
even
Gen
Z
now
aging
in
their
folks
who
grew
up
on
a
cell
phone
.
They're
always
going
to
be
looking
to
make
mobile
decision
or
use
mobile
first
,
if
not
web
first
.
So
I
think
that's
absolutely
happening
.
But
I
don't
see
digital
brokerages
disintermediating
traditional
brokerages
.
I
just
see
the
adoption
of
technology
continuing
to
be
kind
of
the
number
one
success
determinant
of
a
traditional
brokerage
.
If
they're
able
to
build
a
great
tech
stack
,
keep
it
really
up
to
date
and
create
a
really
powerful
network
through
that
technology
,
they're
going
to
be
great
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:50:06
It
almost
feels
like
table
stakes
now
for
a
lot
of
brokerages
that
you
have
to
have
some
of
these
capabilities
,
Otherwise
you're
going
to
spend
all
day
on
the
damn
phone
.
Kary Jablonski
3:50:13
Oh
yeah
,
you
just
you
can't
.
There's
no
way
to
exist
,
especially
again
in
a
market
like
this
.
I
know
a
lot
of
customers
and
folks
in
the
industry
brokerages
I've
talked
to
while
the
market's
been
down
stressed
they
just
can't
be
investing
technology
now
,
which
I
get
.
You
got
to
run
a
business
and
you
got
to
run
it
lean
while
rates
are
what
they
are
right
now
.
But
I
do
think
to
your
point
exactly
.
There
is
so
much
that
you
can
automate
and
if
you
start
thinking
about
how
can
technology
spend
not
replace
headcount
spend
,
but
actually
increase
the
productivity
of
headcount
and
reduce
the
pace
at
which
you
need
to
add
headcount
into
the
future
,
it
can
make
a
lot
of
sense
to
invest
right
now
100
percent
,
because
I
think
that
for
a
lot
of
these
businesses
,
they're
looking
to
find
ways
to
gain
that
little
bit
of
an
edge
and
if
you
can
offer
a
suite
of
tools
,
which
obviously
Trucker
Tools
is
giving
that
to
the
carriers
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:51:06
but
on
the
broker
side
of
things
,
what
does
that
,
I
guess
,
experience
look
like
for
them
?
Are
they
using
the
mobile
app
?
Are
they
using
a
desktop
version
?
What
does
that
experience
look
like
for
them
?
Kary Jablonski
3:51:16
So
,
our
belief
is
MS
integration
first
.
We
want
to
be
operating
wherever
the
core
workflow
of
the
broker
is
.
So
we've
got
integrations
with
dozens
and
dozens
of
TMSs
,
ranging
from
the
Cadillacs
Super
Large
,
in-house
certainly
custom
built
TMSs
,
really
,
really
big
brokerages
,
all
the
way
down
to
the
long
tail
of
TMSs
,
some
of
the
highly
high
volume
smaller
TMS
models
.
So
our
core
products
you
can
think
about
.
We've
got
our
low
tracking
product
for
brokerages
and
our
digital
freight
matching
,
digital
booking
product
for
brokerages
.
Kary Jablonski
3:51:54
All
of
them
are
integrated
fully
in
these
TMSs
so
that
when
a
broker
on
the
floor
,
a
carrier
,
sales
rep
,
what
have
you
is
working
on
a
load
,
they
can
simply
automatically
initiate
tracking
with
the
driver
phone
number
,
which
they
should
already
have
in
the
TMS
.
They
receive
offers
directly
into
the
TMS
so
that
they
can
review
them
in
real
time
.
They
can
set
information
about
counter
offers
or
automatic
accepts
,
rejects
based
on
offer
information
that
comes
in
to
speed
up
the
time
from
bid
to
book
.
So
with
all
the
broker
experience
is
95%
of
it
is
happening
within
a
TMS
.
We
do
have
web
portals
for
digital
freight
matching
and
our
low
tracking
platforms
,
should
that
ever
be
of
interest
or
abuse
for
brokerages
.
But
our
belief
just
again
based
on
what
our
customers
tell
us
is
.
They
do
not
want
hundreds
of
tabs
open
on
several
screens
,
like
every
broker
has
.
They
just
want
the
team
focused
on
a
single
workflow
.
So
that's
where
we
plug
in
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:52:48
Yeah
,
you
don't
want
like
27
monitors
.
I
know
like
some
brokers
like
that
their
offices
have
at
least
two
monitors
,
sometimes
it's
four
.
It
gets
crazy
,
it's
nuts
.
Kary Jablonski
3:52:58
And
then
you
always
got
the
TVs
on
all
over
the
place
just
tracking
everything
that's
going
on
in
the
world
.
It's
a
fun
atmosphere
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:53:05
And
it's
one
of
those
like
how
do
you
guys
focus
?
Like
,
as
a
marketer
who
stayed
on
the
outside
of
the
broker
floor
,
I'm
like
I
don't
know
how
any
of
you
people
get
anything
done
on
the
broker
floor
.
Kary Jablonski
3:53:14
Oh
yeah
,
and
everyone's
on
the
phone
and
talking
to
each
other
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:53:17
It's
nuts
,
it's
fun
,
yeah
,
it's
fun
to
like
walk
into
,
like
as
I'm
going
to
get
my
coffee
,
like
,
oh
,
yeah
,
it's
exciting
,
and
then
I
go
back
to
my
quiet
little
like
writing
hole
in
order
to
actually
like
get
some
stuff
done
Now
for
you
know
,
I
guess
the
broker
mindset
what
does
,
I
guess
the
the
moot
move
to
digital
freight
.
Is
it
a
good
one
?
Is
it
a
more
efficient
one
?
Is
it
?
You
know
,
when
we
say
a
digital
brokerage
,
are
we
more
referring
to
like
AI
and
automation
,
or
is
it
like
kind
of
a
combination
of
like
people
skills
,
automation
and
AI
?
Kary Jablonski
3:53:51
I
think
it's
the
latter
there
.
It's
the
combination
of
all
the
above
.
Again
,
I
think
every
brokerage
is
going
to
be
tech
enabled
,
if
they
aren't
already
right
now
,
and
the
winners
are
going
to
be
who
?
A
combination
of
two
things
.
Two
is
building
and
buying
,
licensing
the
best
,
most
efficient
technology
stocks
to
empower
their
people
to
do
more
and
be
more
efficient
.
Kary Jablonski
3:54:11
Bookie
more
loads
per
day
is
kind
of
a
core
metric
there
,
Combined
with
the
team
.
Who
is
most
adept
at
building
and
sustaining
relationships
with
shippers
and
carriers
Like
this
is
.
You
know
,
you
can't
just
flip
a
switch
and
overnight
.
Everything
has
gone
digital
.
There's
always
I'm
firmly
believe
there's
always
going
to
be
a
human
element
to
freight
,
and
that
digital
tools
like
ours
,
AI
enabled
tools
,
are
served
to
make
the
people
who
are
making
the
freight
move
more
efficient
and
more
productive
,
cut
out
more
of
the
noise
so
they
can
spend
more
of
their
time
on
kind
of
value
generating
activities
,
whether
that's
landing
a
new
shipper
client
or
,
you
know
,
helping
a
carrier
through
a
particularly
challenging
exception
management
situation
,
rather
than
,
you
know
,
building
loads
manually
into
TMS
,
making
phone
calls
to
track
drivers
,
emailing
back
and
forth
to
negotiate
on
a
load
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:55:02
And
it
almost
sounds
like
that's
where
,
like
the
carrier
relationship
management
part
comes
into
play
for
a
lot
of
these
brokerages
.
Is
that
a
safe
assumption
that
that's
where
they
can
kind
of
pull
their
carrier
base
and
keep
like
the
good
ones
on
one
list
and
then
on
another
list
is
kind
of
the
secondary
?
Is
that
kind
of
how
it
works
?
Kary Jablonski
3:55:18
Exactly
so
.
Our
carrier
network
,
like
I
mentioned
,
we've
got
315,000
MCs
on
our
network
.
Plenty
of
brokerages
we
work
with
have
carrier
networks
into
the
low
six
figures
kind
of
.
Your
average
brokerage
,
I
would
argue
,
has
several
dozen
thousand
carriers
in
the
network
.
That
is
a
lot
of
carriers
,
and
if
you
think
about
how
brokerages
have
run
for
the
last
you
know
,
several
decades
,
it's
been
a
lot
of
tribal
knowledge
,
pen
and
paper
,
excel
spreadsheets
that
may
or
may
not
be
shared
with
everyone
,
mate
.
Kary Jablonski
3:55:48
You
know
there's
version
control
issues
,
everything's
manually
stored
.
So
our
vision
for
a
carrier
relationship
management
system
was
to
digitize
all
of
that
information
and
turn
it
into
a
data
advantage
so
that
brokers
,
as
opposed
to
searching
for
information
on
which
carrier
is
the
best
carrier
to
use
for
lane
or
I've
kind
of
one
off
strange
load
I
can't
remember
who
it
was
that
so-and-so
called
last
time
they
have
all
that
information
digitally
at
their
fingertips
in
a
way
that
is
getting
proactively
pushed
to
them
and
allowing
them
to
engage
with
those
carriers
,
ideally
through
digital
first
channels
.
But
also
,
you
know
,
we've
got
email
addresses
and
phone
numbers
in
there
so
that
they
can
just
get
the
right
load
to
the
right
carrier
faster
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:56:27
Now
,
on
the
other
like
CRM
side
of
things
,
like
the
internal
,
like
Trucker
Tools
CRM
,
how
are
you
,
I
guess
,
approaching
you
know
different
carriers
and
different
brokerages
to
join
the
Trucker
Tools
platform
?
Because
it
seems
like
you
guys
are
really
like
all
over
the
place
like
podcast
interviews
,
speeches
,
like
I
feel
like
I
see
you
at
every
trade
show
,
like
what
does
that
,
what
does
like
the
CRM
or
the
marketing
high
level
plan
,
look
like
for
Trucker
Tools
?
Kary Jablonski
3:56:54
Yeah
,
well
,
I
appreciate
that
.
We've
definitely
focused
the
last
year
on
really
getting
out
into
the
market
.
So
good
to
hear
someone
has
taken
note
.
I
really
appreciate
it
.
Blythe Brumleve
3:57:03
I
feel
like
I've
seen
you
everywhere
.
Kary Jablonski
3:57:06
Well
,
we
have
an
awesome
team
.
I
would
be
remiss
not
to
say
that
.
First
,
our
VP
of
marketing
,
alex
Alvator
.
Our
VP
of
sales
,
adlon
Adams
.
Our
COO
,
rohit
Bezawada
those
phenomenal
rock
stars
.
We've
got
amazing
product
managers
,
jessamyn
and
Jarrett
.
So
just
kind
of
top
to
bottom
,
our
team
is
awesome
,
which
makes
my
job
consequently
very
easy
.
Kary Jablonski
3:57:28
I'd
say
the
we
have
been
super
focused
on
the
broker
3PL
market
.
We
do
work
with
shippers
,
you
know
we're
a
great
solution
for
them
in
many
cases
.
But
I
think
when
you
think
about
some
of
the
other
visibility
players
in
the
space
,
there
is
a
bit
of
lack
of
focus
and
overextension
and
something
we've
been
deliberate
about
.
Maybe
it's
because
we're
private
equity
backed
,
which
has
kind
of
forced
us
to
be
deliberate
and
thoughtful
about
who
we
go
after
and
why
.
We
have
just
been
focused
on
solving
broker
3PL
problems
and
,
like
I
mentioned
a
couple
you
know
10
minutes
ago
,
with
the
virtuous
cycle
as
we
onboard
more
brokerages
onto
our
platform
or
sorry
,
we
kickstarted
things
with
mobile
app
for
carriers
aggravated
a
ton
of
carrier
supply
makes
it
very
easy
.
Brokers
are
always
looking
to
build
connections
with
carriers
.
That
is
kind
of
their
number
one
asset
as
well
.
It
makes
it
very
easy
for
us
to
onboard
brokers
onto
our
low
tracking
or
digital
freight
matching
platform
.
Getting
more
you
know
loads
on
our
platform
,
becoming
a
more
ubiquitous
you
know
player
in
the
space
drives
even
more
carriers
to
want
to
join
because
they're
more
likely
to
be
asked
to
track
through
tracker
tools
.
We
want
to
make
tracking
with
us
the
easiest
,
most
seamless
carrier
experience
possible
.
They're
looking
for
freight
right
now
,
so
they
want
to
get
on
tracker
tools
loads
marketplace
so
they
can
see
what's
available
,
make
some
offers
,
maybe
engage
with
the
brokerages
that
they
haven't
worked
with
before
.
So
they're
going
to
download
the
app
or
go
onto
our
web
portal
.
So
the
go
to
market
motion
is
definitely
kind
of
one
of
this
flywheel
,
but
we
do
.
Kary Jablonski
3:58:57
We
get
out
in
the
market
a
ton
.
We
want
to
be
talking
to
customers
.
I
talk
to
dozens
of
customers
every
week
,
dozens
of
prospects
myself
,
to
get
feedback
on
.
You
know
,
this
is
what
we're
thinking
about
building
from
a
product
perspective
and
I
get
some
feedback
from
you
.
Hey
,
what
are
your
biggest
problems
right
now
when
it
comes
to
visibility
and
how
can
that
inform
what
we're
building
?
So
it's
you
know
it's
not
.
Kary Jablonski
3:59:17
Our
technology
is
very
,
very
impressive
,
but
I
think
the
way
we
go
about
going
to
market
is
not
,
I'd
say
,
rocket
science
and
that
we
are
just
in
the
business
of
solving
broker
problems
and
giving
carriers
opportunities
to
make
their
lives
easier
.
So
you
know
you'll
see
us
at
trade
shows
all
over
the
place
.
We're
going
to
Banyan
in
September
,
mcleod
in
September
,
tia
in
October
.
So
you
know
we're
always
out
in
the
market
.
We've
got
our
sales
team
going
to
meet
with
prospects
constantly
in
person
.
And
again
,
huge
shout
out
to
our
marketing
team
for
just
upping
our
presence
online
.
I
think
freight
seems
to
live
on
LinkedIn
is
one
thing
I've
noticed
in
much
time
in
the
industry
.
So
we're
definitely
growing
our
presence
there
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:00:01
Yeah
,
it's
one
of
those
things
where
the
freight
community
is
really
strong
on
LinkedIn
and
it's
starting
to
grow
on
Twitter
,
which
is
kind
of
or
X
whatever
the
platform's
name
is
,
I'm
still
going
to
call
it
Twitter
,
I
think
.
Kary Jablonski
4:00:14
I
know
I
wonder
if
we
just
always
going
to
call
it
Twitter
.
I
think
we're
always
going
to
call
it
Twitter
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:00:17
Yeah
,
I'm
like
it's
just
doesn't
flow
off
the
two
.
Kary Jablonski
4:00:21
Oh
yeah
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:00:22
Well
,
I
did
see
a
freight
wave
.
Ceo
Craig
Fuller
said
last
night
he's
kind
of
coining
the
term
,
freight
X
is
like
the
freight
community
on
Twitter
and
he
said
you
know
if
you
have
any
friends
in
freight
,
invite
them
on
Twitter
.
So
that
that's
my
,
that's
my
,
my
spiel
to
her
for
on
freight
or
on
Craig's
side
of
things
.
Kary Jablonski
4:00:40
I
love
Craig's
Twitter
,
so
maybe
I'm
not
.
I'm
very
much
a
kind
of
lurker
on
Twitter
,
where
I'm
always
on
there
but
I'm
never
.
I
haven't
participated
in
freight
X
yet
,
but
maybe
this
is
my
sign
to
get
involved
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:00:54
Yes
,
absolutely
.
Now
I
was
going
to
go
into
a
few
different
like
rapid
fire
questions
where
I
like
to
ask
you
know
,
folks
who
come
on
the
show
like
,
what
is
your
favorite
social
media
platform
?
It
kind
of
sounds
maybe
like
LinkedIn
,
or
is
there
,
you
know
,
a
surprise
?
Kary Jablonski
4:01:07
I
think
it's
LinkedIn
which
is
really
sad
.
But
yeah
,
I'm
not
,
I'm
not
big
on
Instagram
or
Facebook
and
I
lurk
on
Twitter
,
but
I
think
,
especially
since
joining
the
freight
industry
specifically
,
my
LinkedIn
usage
is
probably
just
taken
off
.
I'd
have
to
go
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:01:29
What
about
?
What
is
your
favorite
SAS
tool
that's
not
your
own
favorite
SAS
tool
that
you
can't
live
without
?
Kary Jablonski
4:01:37
I
think
it's
got
to
be
Slack
Close
second
for
notion
.
I
don't
know
if
folks
know
notion
out
there
,
but
it's
our
.
We
use
that
for
knowledge
management
at
Trucker
tools
and
it's
amazing
.
So
one
of
those
two
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:01:51
Yeah
,
because
I
will
use
a
similar
tool
called
ClickUp
,
but
I
don't
know
where
I
would
be
without
some
kind
of
like
project
management
tool
.
It
has
to
be
something
that
I
use
every
day
like
a
Bible
.
Okay
,
so
I
know
that
you
announced
a
loach
or
partnership
.
Any
cool
other
partnerships
that
you
have
going
on
with
Trucker
tools
or
coming
down
the
pipeline
?
Kary Jablonski
4:02:13
Yeah
,
so
,
like
I
mentioned
,
we're
partnered
with
FreightWave
Sonar
and
we're
always
looking
at
deep
in
that
relationship
.
They're
phenomenal
partner
of
ours
and
Sonar
tool
could
not
be
more
informative
for
brokers
and
carriers
or
like
.
So
we're
continuing
to
deepen
that
relationship
on
our
mobile
app
for
carriers
and
also
for
brokerages
.
You
know
we're
always
adding
new
TMS
platforms
to
the
Trucker
tools
ecosystem
.
So
,
like
I
mentioned
,
banyan
,
we're
having
their
conference
in
September
.
They're
really
making
moves
in
the
FTL
space
right
now
.
Kary Jablonski
4:02:45
They're
an
exciting
one
that
we've
got
going
,
I
think
,
another
big
one
that's
a
little
different
than
a
traditional
partnership
,
but
I
mentioned
very
briefly
we
are
now
on
WhatsApp
and
,
given
the
near
shoring
trend
so
much
freight
moving
from
Mexico
into
the
US
we
saw
a
real
need
to
build
communication
channels
between
brokers
and
carriers
.
That
you
know
happened
where
Mexican
carriers
tend
to
communicate
,
which
is
WhatsApp
.
So
we're
now
live
with
WhatsApp
.
You
can
get
WhatsApp
At
any
time
.
You've
got
a
plus
five
,
two
phone
number
on
Trucker
tools
.
We're
always
going
to
default
to
communicating
with
that
driver
to
have
them
download
the
app
,
send
status
updates
are
kind
of
one
time
text
to
track
.
It's
all
going
to
happen
through
WhatsApp
,
which
is
awesome
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:03:31
That's
super
cool
.
I
mean
,
I'm
just
completely
fascinated
by
the
near
shoring
phenomenon
that's
been
going
on
.
I
even
just
like
the
concept
of
you
know
some
of
the
infrastructure
that
has
to
be
established
in
like
South
America
and
road
construction
,
and
you
know
,
it's
just
.
I
think
that
that
is
probably
the
most
fascinating
part
of
the
globe
right
now
.
Yeah
,
you
brought
that
that
part
up
where
you're
incorporating
the
technology
into
systems
that
already
exist
within
those
regions
of
the
world
.
Okay
,
so
you've
been
a
full
time
CEO
for
a
trucker
tool
since
early
2020
or
no
early
2022
,
I
think
exactly
.
So
you've
been
on
the
job
for
close
to
two
years
now
.
What
do
you
think
has
been
the
biggest
challenge
that
you've
learned
from
since
that
time
?
Kary Jablonski
4:04:16
That's
a
great
question
.
I'm
saying
the
freight
market
I
don't
think
counts
because
everyone's
willing
with
that
,
but
it
is
.
You
know
the
timing
of
when
I
joined
the
business
was
funny
and
that
you
know
I
joined
in
.
I
joined
as
our
COO
in
late
21
.
It's
like
everyone's
,
you
know
,
just
investing
in
technology
and
everything
is
great
.
And
then
,
kind
of
as
soon
as
I
stepped
into
the
CEO
role
,
things
took
a
turn
.
We've
absolutely
grown
very
,
very
healthily
through
it
.
I
think
it
thanks
to
our
kind
of
product
diversification
.
Kary Jablonski
4:04:50
But
that
has
definitely
been
challenging
To
.
I
think
a
unique
challenge
of
our
industry
is
because
it
is
so
cyclical
and
markets
boom
and
bust
frequently
and
hard
.
You
need
to
be
nimble
and
have
solutions
to
problems
that
different
customers
feel
in
different
markets
.
You
know
,
talking
to
brokers
in
a
down
market
is
very
different
than
talking
to
brokers
in
an
up
market
.
So
I
think
that's
probably
been
the
biggest
challenge
I've
faced
is
how
do
we
,
you
know
,
pivot
the
way
we're
talking
about
the
business
to
make
sure
that
we're
talking
to
the
current
needs
of
our
broker
customers
?
And
what
that's
looked
like
for
us
right
now
is
really
focusing
on
the
low
tracking
side
on
,
you
know
,
additional
nodalities
in
addition
to
mobile
tracking
.
So
our
yielding
network
we've
really
grown
quickly
.
Our
text
of
track
we're
excited
about
.
And
then
on
the
digital
great
matching
side
,
moving
from
less
,
from
a
kind
of
a
carrier
sourcing
perspective
to
more
of
a
digital
bookings
automation
perspective
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:05:46
Yeah
,
it
almost
sounds
like
you
guys
are
.
You
know
with
how
much
you
talk
to
your
customers
.
I'm
sure
you're
already
like
well
ahead
of
the
game
when
it
comes
to
product
development
and
the
product
roadmap
,
and
it's
coming
down
the
pipeline
.
Now
a
couple
final
questions
.
Anything
that
we
can
be
on
the
lookout
for
from
like
a
release
perspective
or
like
product
roadmap
that
you
would
want
to
share
,
or
,
you
know
,
new
announcements
,
anything
like
that
?
Kary Jablonski
4:06:09
Yeah
.
So
on
the
product
front
,
we're
really
excited
over
,
you
know
,
the
next
six
or
so
weeks
for
launching
our
carrier
validation
concept
,
which
fraud
has
also
been
.
I
can't
believe
we
haven't
talked
about
fraud
.
Kary Jablonski
4:06:21
I
know
,
I
just
,
I
just
I
had
an
interview
without
talking
about
fraud
,
which
feels
kind
of
nice
,
but
it's
obviously
been
a
huge
,
huge
topic
in
the
space
and
there's
so
many
interesting
businesses
out
there
doing
their
part
to
combat
it
,
and
what
we're
doing
is
introducing
our
carrier
validation
concept
,
which
is
going
to
,
every
couple
of
months
,
force
every
single
carrier
who
has
signed
up
with
trucker
tools
over
315,000
of
them
to
revalidate
their
identity
by
answering
a
series
of
questions
that
are
kind
of
akin
the
trucking
version
of
what
your
mother's
made
a
name
.
So
what
loads
or
what
lanes
have
you
run
over
the
last
two
months
?
Which
broker
did
you
work
with
last
week
so
that
we're
really
you
know
how
?
What
type
of
equipment
do
you
run
,
so
that
we
can
build
a
lot
of
confidence
into
our
brokers
that
the
carriers
who
are
interacting
digitally
with
on
trucker
tools
are
who
they
claim
to
be
?
Blythe Brumleve
4:07:19
I
hope
you
enjoyed
this
episode
of
Everything
Is
Logistics
,
a
podcast
for
the
thinkers
in
freight
,
telling
the
stories
behind
how
your
favorite
stuff
and
people
get
from
point
A
to
B
.
Subscribe
to
the
show
,
sign
up
for
our
newsletter
and
follow
our
socials
over
at
EverythingIsLogisticscom
.
And
in
addition
to
the
podcast
,
I
also
wanted
to
let
y'all
know
about
another
company
I
operate
and
that's
Digital
Dispatch
,
where
we
help
you
build
a
better
website
.
Now
,
a
lot
of
the
times
,
we
hand
this
task
of
building
a
new
website
or
refreshing
a
current
one
off
to
a
co-worker's
child
,
a
neighbor
down
the
street
or
a
stranger
around
the
world
,
where
you
probably
spend
more
time
explaining
the
freight
industry
than
it
takes
to
actually
build
the
dang
website
.
Well
,
that
doesn't
happen
at
Digital
Dispatch
.
Blythe Brumleve
4:08:02
We've
been
building
online
since
2009
,
but
we're
also
early
adopters
of
AI
,
automation
and
other
website
tactics
that
help
your
company
to
be
a
central
place
to
pull
in
all
of
your
social
media
posts
,
recruit
new
employees
and
give
potential
customers
a
glimpse
into
how
you
operate
your
business
.
Our
new
website
builds
start
as
low
as
$1500
,
along
with
ongoing
website
management
,
maintenance
and
updates
starting
at
$90
a
month
,
plus
some
bonus
,
freight
marketing
and
sales
content
similar
to
what
you
hear
on
the
podcast
.
You
can
watch
a
quick
explainer
video
over
on
DigitalDispatchio
.
Just
check
out
the
pricing
page
once
you
arrive
and
you
can
see
how
we
can
build
your
digital
ecosystem
on
a
strong
foundation
.
Until
then
,
I
hope
you
enjoyed
this
episode
.
I'll
see
you
all
real
soon
and
go
Jags
.
