SPEAKER_00
0:37
Every
time
we
talk
about
space,
the
rocket
gets
the
glamour
shot.
Which
is
fair.
It's
hard
to
compete
with
a
controlled
explosion.
But
a
launch
is
one
leg
of
a
much
larger
network.
Before
anything
leaves
Earth,
hardware
has
already
moved
through
factories,
ports,
railroads,
clean
rooms,
facilities,
and
checkpoints.
After
launch,
the
problem
gets
much
worse.
Somebody
has
to
move
the
fuel,
the
data,
the
spare
parts,
people,
materials,
eventually
waste
between
each
planet
that
does
not
have
roads
or
repair
shops
or
a
conveniently
located
Home
Depot.
This
episode
is
about
five
companies
building
pieces
of
a
new
supply
chain:
Rocket
Lab,
SpaceX,
Don
Aerospace,
Cascade
Space,
and
Anatar.
The
question
is
simple.
What
has
to
become
routine
before
space
stops
being
a
sequence
of
heroic
one-off
missions
and
starts
behaving
like
a
real
economy?
Launch
demand
will
get
the
headlines,
but
repeatable
operations
will
create
the
market.
Let's
start
with
the
first
node,
because
what
if
the
launch
site
could
move?
That's
exactly
what
New
Zealand
company
Rocket
Lab
is
aiming
to
achieve
with
their
new
Ghost
program.
Now,
if
you
haven't
heard
of
Rocket
Lab,
they
are
second
only
to
SpaceX
in
terms
of
repeatable
launches,
meaning
that
they
want
to
be
the
next
big
provider
of
reusability
when
it
comes
to
rockets
and
boosters.
Their
Electron
rocket
has
been
running
for
a
few
years
now
with
100%
success
mission
rate.
Meanwhile,
they
are
also
developing
a
new
ship
called
Neutron,
which
is
supposed
to
debut
in
2027.
That's
going
to
rival
the
payloads
that
SpaceX
is
able
to
produce.
Now,
because
the
Electron
launch
has
been
so
pivotal
to
their
success,
it's
allowed
them
the
ability
to
streamline
a
bunch
of
different
operations.
And
what
they
hope
to
do
with
this
new
Ghost
program
is
to
take
that
repeatability
of
their
launches,
containerize
them,
and
then
place
those
containers
all
over
the
globe,
first
starting
with
the
operation
in
Kodiak,
Alaska.
This
is
bigger
than
a
clever
container
story.
Think
mobile
ports,
deployable
cross-dock
or
emergency
capacity
brought
closer
to
a
time-sensitive
mission.
Rockets
are
not
ordinary
freight,
obviously,
but
the
operating
logic
is
familiar.
Move
the
capability
instead
of
forcing
that
capability
on
every
shipment
through
the
same
fixed
node.
Rocket
Lab
says
the
first
Ghost
location
is
going
to
be
in
that
Kodiak
Alaska
location,
but
it's
not
going
to
be
operational
until
2027.
And
that's
an
important
caveat
because
this
is
a
newly
announced
system
and
a
company
roadmap,
not
a
proven
worldwide
launch
network
today.
But
why
this
matters
is
that
Ghost
turns
launch
geography
into
a
capacity
placement
decision,
which
is
a
pure
play
supply
chain
decision.
Now,
for
folks
who
may
not
be
aware,
we
have
launch
facilities
all
over
the
world,
but
they're
mainly
focused
around
the
equator.
So
think
Texas,
Florida,
obviously,
with
the
Space
Coast,
California
as
well.
They're
all
as
close
to
the
equator
as
possible.
And
the
reason
for
that
is
that
it's
a
shorter
orbit
to
or
a
shorter
way
to
leave
the
Earth
in
order
to
get
into
orbit
versus
all
of
these
different
locations.
And
so
while
it
may
take
longer
to
reach
in
other
locations,
especially
in
Kodiak,
Alaska,
might
take
a
little
bit
longer
to
reach
orbit
from
that
location,
but
it
does
open
up
the
entire
globe
to
launch
capacity,
which
frankly
just
hasn't
existed
yet.
Moving
the
launch
node
solves
one
problem,
but
it
also
creates
a
bigger
question.
What
happens
when
the
destination
becomes
a
permanent
work
site?
Because
a
moon
base
is
not
the
end
of
a
mission,
it
is
the
beginning
of
recurring
demand.
SpaceX's
moon
base
ambition
changes
the
conversation
because
the
permanent
activity
creates
a
schedule,
not
a
spectacular
arrival.
A
base
needs
repeated
deliveries
of
power
systems,
life
support
hardware,
food
spares,
construction
equipment,
robotics,
scientific
payloads,
textiles,
and
people.
It
also
creates
reverse
flows,
failed
parts,
waste,
recovered
materials,
samples,
and
operational
data.
This
is
where
the
original
supply
chain
thesis
matters,
because
every
pound
and
kilogram
launched
from
Earth
has
to
survive
the
terrestrial
transport
integration,
the
launch,
the
transfer,
the
landing,
the
operation
itself,
the
maintenance,
and
the
eventual
replacement.
A
settlement
cannot
live
forever
on
bespoke
shipments
from
Earth.
That
is
why
local
production
of
fuel,
repair,
and
standard
interfaces
become
unavoidable.
Lunar
Regolith,
which
hold
on,
I
actually
had
to
look
this
up
because
it
is
a
layer
of
loose,
broken
rock
and
dust
that
sits
on
top
of
solid
bedrock
on
Earth,
Moon,
Mars,
and
other
rocky
bodies.
Now,
the
way
that
this
is
described
is
that
because
Earth
has
an
atmosphere,
these
uh
think
of
it
as
like
dirt
and
sand
and
you
know,
just
rocky
material,
which
is
frankly
just
dirt
and
sand
that
comes
from
larger
rocks
that
has
been
eroded
away.
But
because
of
the
wind
and
rain
and
water,
all
of
these
things
are
interacting
with
those
materials,
they're
they're
kind
of
round,
they're
not
super
sharp.
Alternatively,
on
the
moon,
they
don't
have
any
atmosphere,
they
don't
have
any,
you
know,
uh
wind
and
water
and
and
rain
to
soften
those
materials.
So
those
materials
that
are
on
the
moon,
the
same
kind
of
moon
dirt,
it's
like
tiny
shards
of
glass.
And
so
it
creates
problems
for
all
of
the
equipment.
It
creates
problems
for
the
astronauts
and
breathing
and
just
sustaining
life.
And
so
the
problem
there
is
that
they
have
to
be
very
careful
about
lunar
dust,
where
it
ends
up,
where
hopefully
where
it
doesn't
end
up.
And
so
being
able
to
pull
the
oxygen
from
rocks,
which
sounds
crazy,
but
they're
able
to
pull
that
oxygen
from
the
rocks,
from
these
glass
shard
rocks,
which
space
is
just
crazy,
that
a
sidebar.
But
these
glass
shard
rocks
that
they
have
to
pull
the
oxygen
from,
is
where
they're
hoping
to
create
that
regenerative
supply
of
life-sustaining
materials
such
as
oxygen,
which
humans
need.
And
so
that
that's
a
good
caveat
to
understand
of
just
it's
not
copy
and
paste
from
earth
to
moon.
You
have
to
accommodate
for
completely
different
environments,
completely
different
psyches,
and
different
kinds
of
dirt.
The
moon
does
not
hand
us
a
free
industrial
base,
it
hands
us
a
very
expensive
sourcing
problem.
You
do
not
build
a
city
by
celebrating
the
first
truckload
of
lumber.
You
build
it
by
making
the
next
thousand
deliveries
boring
enough
to
plan
around.
Same
deal
on
the
moon,
just
with
more
radiation
and
fewer
Home
Depots.
Now,
why
this
matters
is
because
a
moon
base
converts
exploration
into
recurring
construction,
replenishment,
maintenance,
and
reverse
logistics.
Plus,
it
sets
up
the
outpost
for
those
future
Mars
missions
that
NASA
and
SpaceX
and
so
many
others
are
incredibly
excited
to
invest
in.
Now,
a
permanent
network
also
needs
replenishment
between
launches.
In
space,
that
starts
with
fuel,
because
a
depot
is
useless
if
the
vehicles
cannot
connect
to
it.
Don
Aerospace
is
building
its
own
loop
concept
around
three
connected
pieces:
a
docking
and
fluid
transfer
interface,
servicing
vehicles,
and
future
propellant
depots.
The
interface
is
the
real
supply
chain
story
because,
in
case
none
of
those
phrases
made
any
kind
of
sense
to
you,
imagine
a
semi-truck
that
has
a
different
way
to
put
the
gas
nozzle
into
the
truck
that's
different
from
a
Peterbrook
truck,
that's
different
from
a
Kenworth
truck.
It
would
create
a
level
of
inoperability
that
is
unattainable
because
you
would
need
several
different
types
of
even
gas
nozzles
to
even
refill
all
of
these
different
trucks.
And
so
for
Don
Aerospace
in
particular,
that's
what
they're
aiming
to
achieve.
They
want
to
be
the
fueling
station
in
space,
but
that
requires
getting
everybody
to
agree
or
getting
multiple
partners
to
agree
with
what
that
gas
tank
filling
should
look
like,
how
it
should
function,
what
the
nozzle
should
be,
who
is
making
these
different
refueling
operations.
So
all
of
that
is
where
Dawn
Aerospace
is
trying
to
play
in.
It's
compatible
hardware
designed
into
spacecraft
before
a
large
refueling
network
can
even
exist.
If
that
network
works,
fuel
starts
behaving
less
like
a
fixed
emission
constraint
and
more
like
a
replenishable
operating
expense.
That
can
change
asset
light,
route
planning,
replacement,
cycles,
maneuverability,
and
how
much
redundancy
a
customer
has
to
launch
on
day
one.
The
space
industry
has
no
shortage
of
beautiful
PowerPoint
gas
stations,
but
Dawn's
practical
angle
is
the
sequencing,
putting
connection
points
on
vehicles
now,
and
then
build
services
and
depots
around
something
that
customers
can
actually
use
later
in
space.
Why
this
one
matters
is
because
standards
create
compatibility
and
compatibility
creates
customers.
Customers
make
infrastructure
investments
financeable.
That
brings
us
to
comms.
Because
in
communications,
no
signal
means
no
visibility,
no
control,
and
no
reliable
service.
Which
also
brings
up
the
company
Cascade
Space,
which
is
building
a
commercial
deep
space
communications
capacity
for
missions
beyond
low
Earth
orbit.
Its
argument
is
pretty
blunt.
NASA's
deep
space
network
is
oversubscribed,
and
existing
commercial
alternatives
are
limited,
fragmented,
or
unreliable.
Cascade
has
an
approach
that
it
uses
an
array
of
smaller
dishes
instead
of
relying
on
one
single
giant
antenna.
The
company
says
new
capacity
is
planned
to
come
online
in
2027,
where
in
terrestrial
logistics,
visibility
is
what
turns
movement
into
an
operation.
You
need
location,
you
need
conditions,
you
need
statuses,
exception
alerts,
and
instructions
for
that
next
handoff.
Deep
space
communications
play
the
same
role,
except
a
drop
communication
can
mean
losing
the
control
of
an
asset
hundreds
of
thousands
of
miles
away,
or
worse,
death.
This
is
the
layer
that
people
forget
because
it's
not
physically
carrying
a
box,
but
data
is
how
every
physical
movement
gets
planned,
gets
confirmed,
corrected,
and
billed.
This
matters
because
communications
is
the
control
tower
for
deep
space
logistics.
So
capacity
and
reliability
determine
how
many
missions
can
operate
at
once.
All
that
design.
The
network
still
fails
if
the
physical
materials
around
the
people
and
hardware
cannot
survive,
be
traced,
or
be
replaced.
Everybody
loves
the
rockets.
Nobody
asks
who
makes
the
fabric
keeping
the
astronaut
alive.
Space
needs
textiles
and
suits,
habitats,
insulation,
restraints,
flexible
tanks,
shielding,
packing
systems,
and
repair
kits,
which
means
soft
goods
still
have
to
be
designed,
qualified,
manufactured,
inspected,
packed,
and
replaced.
Chy
Rhodes
and
Anatar
are
useful
lenses
for
this
perspective
because
the
company
is
building
around
advanced
textiles,
automated
manufacturing,
domestic
capacity,
and
traceability
all
in
the
United
States.
Anatarm's
Loom
platform
is
designed
to
show
material
origin,
compliance,
and
production
network
information.
She's
also
an
incredible
follow
on
X.
So
if
you
haven't
found
her
or
you're
not
following
her,
I'll
list
her
in
the
show
notes.
But
the
point
is
not
that
Anatar
is
already
supplying
a
named
space
program
because
I
couldn't
find
a
direct
source
on
that.
The
point
is
that
manufacturing
capabilities
in
space
are
in
desperate
need
of
adjacent
industries
right
now
that
can
manufacture
the
exact
goods
that
are
going
to
be
needed
by
the
people
doing
the
missions.
When
the
nearest
replacement
is
on
another
planet,
material
choices
me
come
logistics
choices.
Which
products
can
be
repaired,
which
can
be
reused,
which
needs
serialized
traceability,
which
failure
forces
another
launch
from
Earth.
Textiles
might
sound
soft,
the
supply
chain
consequences
are
not.
Why
this
matters
is
human
presence
really
depends
on
the
materials
that
are
easy
to
dismiss
until
one
fails.
Now
let's
put
all
five
of
those
things
together.
Rocket
Lab
is
working
on
movable
launch
capacity,
SpaceX's
moon-based
ambitions,
create
recurring
construction
and
resupply
demand.
Don
is
building
the
refueling
interface,
while
Cascade
is
adding
communications
capacity.
Anatar
shows
the
adjacent
manufacturing
base
behind
the
soft
goods
that
humans
and
hardware
will
depend
on.
None
of
these
companies
is
the
whole
supply
chain.
And
that's
the
whole
point.
Space
becomes
a
supply
chain
when
these
layers
connect
through
common
interfaces,
communications,
maintenance,
insurance,
and
customers
who
expect
the
next
handoff
to
work.
It
also
becomes
two-way
because
hardware
and
supplies
move
out
while
data,
samples,
failed
parts,
and
eventually
recovered
materials
move
back.
The
next
chapter
of
space
will
look
a
lot
less
like
a
single
giant
leap
and
more
like
work
logistics
people
already
recognize.
Put
capacity
where
it's
needed,
keep
equipment
running,
make
inputs
replaceable,
manage
exceptions,
and
stop
treating
every
trip
like
the
first
one.
That
is
how
a
frontier
becomes
an
economy.
First,
somebody
has
to
build
the
supply
chain.
A
new
economy
and
a
new
frontier
won't
last
long
until
somebody
or
a
lot
of
bodies
will
actually
build
the
supply
chain.
Now
that
about
does
it
for
this
episode.
I
hope
you
enjoyed
the
new
supply
chain
in
space.
What
do
you
want
to
see
me
cover
next
when
it
comes
to
space
logistics?
Do
you
want
to
cover
in-orbit
delivery,
debris
removal?
What
else
is
there?
There's
space
power,
there's
communications,
there's
ground
logistics,
there's
even
maintenance
that
is
happening
in
space
where
they're
building
out
warehouses
that
will
have
repair
parts
and
fuel
and
all
of
those
things
that
satellites
will
need.
So
the
satellite
that
goes
up
into
space
doesn't
become
a
glorified
sports
car
that
you
leave
on
the
side
of
the
road
in
the
desert.
You
want
to
make
sure
that
all
of
those
millions
of
dollars
that
you're
putting
into
your
satellites
can
actually
retain
them
for
longer
periods
of
time.
So
there's
lots
of
really
cool,
fun
stuff
that
is
happening
in
space.
And
I
would
love
to
know
what
you
want
to
hear
next.
I
have
more
space
logistics
related
episodes,
including
a
conversation
with
Conversion
Space.
He
is
actually
one
of
those
people
that
are
building
those
warehouses
in
space
so
that
they
can
deliver
cargo
anywhere
in
the
world.
His
goal
is
under
an
hour.
It's
a
really
cool
story.
It's
mostly
targeted
around,
you
know,
relief
supplies,
disaster
relief,
think
military
operations
as
well.
That's
usually
where
a
lot
of
space-related
advancements
come
from,
where
it's
communications
or
the
military
wants
some
kind
of
thing
up
into
the
sky
and
they
need
to
be
able
to
have
that
satellite
and
those
communications.
And
so
that's
what
fuels
it.
That's
where
these
companies
make
their
money
first.
But
then
once
that
recurring
economy,
the
supply
chain,
is
established,
then
all
of
these
other
functions
start
to
operate
together.
And
that's
where
we
start
to
really
start
seeing
this
stuff
really
build
out,
where
we
have
the
moon
base.
And
then
from
the
moon,
we
can
develop
refueling
missions
and
resupply
missions
from
the
moon
that
go
to
Mars
and
beyond.
So
I'm
a
big
fan
of
this
progression
as
far
as
you
know
human
exploration
is
concerned.
We've
seen
it
in
movies
for
years,
for
decades,
even.
And
it's
exciting
that
within
our
lifetime,
we
will
see
space
launches
go
from
a
few
launches
a
year
to
a
few
launches
a
day.
And
that
is
just
remarkable.